Forum Transcripts

Writers Workshop: From Story Idea to Story 11/20/04

Event start time:

Sat Nov 20 12:07:35 2004

Event end time:

Sat Nov 20 13:33:34 2004



Legend:
Questions from the Audience are presented in red.
Answers by the Speaker are in black.
The Moderator's comments are in blue.

mary rosenblum

Hello, all!

mary rosenblum

Welcome to our first Saturday Writers Workshop!

mary rosenblum

This is our Saturday Writers Workshop, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..

mary rosenblum

Since doing always seems to work better than lecturing...I thought we'd try another of our hands on sessions...

mary rosenblum

and this time do a bit of brainstorming on stuck stories. One of the most valuable discoveries you will make as professional writers...

mary rosenblum

is that there is ALWAYS a way to make a story work.

mary rosenblum

Stories can tend to seem like preformed entities when we first start writing.

mary rosenblum

They occur to us and essentially all we do is tweak and polish them...they work or they don't work.

mary rosenblum

And that is mostly due to our inexperience with the structure and function of story.

mary rosenblum

Eventually you realize that you are playing with a huge stack of colored Legos...

mary rosenblum

and if one structure doesn't work, you tear it apart and put it together with new Legos...

mary rosenblum

that every story idea will work, you just need to find the right Legos.

mary rosenblum

And the more you do it, the faster it happens. :-)

mary rosenblum

Anyone have a story idea that won't work, to start off with?

happybunny

Mary, if you have time could you talk about how to choose the POV character for a story? For example, let's say that the story is about a teen who is murdered. The characters are a popular football player at the high school (who is actually the murderer), a friend of the murdered teen, and a school outcast who is suspects the football player. How would you choose which one to make the POV character?

mary rosenblum

Happy, that's a good question and a critical one, because the story will be different depending on which characater you use...

mary rosenblum

and 'unsticking' a stuck story can often be accomplished by simply changing the POV character.

mary rosenblum

Deciding whose story it is is not always easy either.

mary rosenblum

Let's look at this example.

mary rosenblum

We have the murderer...the football hero, a friend of the victim, and our outcast. SO let's see how our story would differ depending on POV.

mary rosenblum

If we use our football hero, our murderer, how can we make this a compelling story?

mary rosenblum

Well, we might let HIM tell the story, and let him lie to the readers...he tells his version as if he is the injured party or merely a bystander...

mary rosenblum

and at the end, he finally reveals that he has been lying, and he killed her.

mary rosenblum

That gives us a twist ending a la Hitchcock.

mary rosenblum

So what if we go with the friend? Maybe she befriends the outcast and of course he is suspected...

mary rosenblum

and she knows he couldn't do it, so she undertakes to prove his innocence. This is a classic mystery plot and might make a dynamite YA mystery.

mary rosenblum

What about our outcast? Here, first person might again be our best choice...

mary rosenblum

since we could have a somewhat cynical young voice who comments on the politics of the HS world...

mary rosenblum

even as he watches everyone suspect him. Maybe he finally comes forward with the one piece of evidence that points irrevocably toward our football hero...

mary rosenblum

but the strength of this version might be his scathing insights into this world of petty politics compared to the stark reality of murder.

mary rosenblum

Again, this could be a very powerful YA, but it's not a classic mystery plot as the 'friend's version', and is potentially more powerful.

mary rosenblum

So there you have three very different stories...one that is almost a horror piece, one classic mystery, and one powerful mainstream. THe first could appeal to all ages, while the other two...

mary rosenblum

in my opinion, would be most powerful as YA stories. (Young Adult for those who don't know the shorthand).

mary rosenblum

So there you have THREE potential stories from one idea. Not bad, eh? Change the setting and characters and you can write all three.

mary rosenblum

A fourth possibility is to do a story where we alternate POVs so that each of these characters gets to tell his/her version of the death and only at the very end do we...

mary rosenblum

find out the truth.

mary rosenblum

And in this case, each of these stories would be equally strong. So which POV do you use? Well, which story do YOU want to write?

mary rosenblum

Pick the one that resonates with you.

mary rosenblum

This is our Saturday Writers Workshop, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..

info

I send my instructor the first scene to my 'Mighty Bat Hunter' story for Assignment 9 and she said that no one would read a story about a phone call for service to get rid of a bat. How do I change it and not comprimise the rest of the story?

speckledorf

Could you write all three versions and sell them?

mary rosenblum

Sorry, wanted to get this in before we moved on. Yep. Change the characters and setting and sell 'em all. :-) Different stories.

mary rosenblum

OR try selling them all to the same editor to run in subsequent issues.... :-)

mary rosenblum

Okay, as to the bat story... 'No one' is a dangerous phrase, and I'm not sure it's ever accurate.

mary rosenblum

There is a VERY popular radio piece that begins with two cops getting a call to catch a squirrel in an apartment. :-)

mary rosenblum

It has gotten a LOT of air time. However, what your instructor probably meant was that THIS version might not interest readers.

mary rosenblum

I think a call for help with a bat could be a great hook!

mary rosenblum

You either have to appeal the humor, or really snag the reader's attention.

mary rosenblum

Whose POV is the story in? The woman or the person responding to the call?

info

the owner of the cat that no one knows about until the end

info

the owner who answers the phone is a woman

mary rosenblum

Well, I"m STILL not sure if the person seeking help with the bat is the POV or not. :-)

info

I am trying from the owner's pov

mary rosenblum

Okay and I"m assuming that the owner calls for help because the bat is in the house?

info

someone calls the owner asking the owner's help to rid bat

mary rosenblum

Okay, THAT's what i wanted to know! :-)

mary rosenblum

This is our Saturday Writers Workshop, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..

mary rosenblum

Here you have a LOT of potential for a humorous hook. We have the hysterical phone call from the wacky and eccentric neighbor or friend or relative...

mary rosenblum

that sets our bat hunter into action. Maybe you just need to make the caller more eccentric and the phone call for help more intriguing.

mary rosenblum

This is exactly the kind of start that I could envision for a Bailey White narrative and she is a top selling author.

mary rosenblum

It's just the kind of off beat, unusual, and colorful situation she uses a lot.

mary rosenblum

I don' t think there's anything intrinsically 'wrong' with starting that way. YOu simply have to make the opening catchy. It needs to hook the reader even if they're not bat fans. :-)(

phil-w

Mary, do questions have to be short.

mary rosenblum

Phil, they can be as long as you can paste into the send bar. :-) You'll do better with /ask than your question send bar.

mary rosenblum

. I found one of those "this could be such a cool story" ideas in our paper recently. A 94-year old woman was dropped off at an elderly care center by an acquaintance who knew nothing about the woman's family. She's a friendly, talkative woman but she refuses to talk about her past or any family, other than her husband who apparently died in 1964. She arrived with only a jacket, a cane and a handbag--no ID other than a medical card. They've determined that she's lived in the county for the past 5 years and has a storage shed in another town filled with clothes, a movie projector, books and photos. It lends itself to a mystery. I also wondered how else it could be handled. Hope you'll be able to get to this on Saturday. Thanks!

mary rosenblum

This is from MLH..who DID make it to the workshop after all! Glad to see you!

mary rosenblum

Oh this has a lot of potential, MLH!

mary rosenblum

YOu could handle this several ways. Let's start with the characters and see how each POV directs the story.

mary rosenblum

WE have someone on the staff of the care facility. We have the person who dropped the woman off, and of course, we have the woman herself.

mary rosenblum

So let's start with the person on the care staff...

mary rosenblum

Maybe the old woman reminds him of the dead grandmother who raised him and some of her rambling comments...

mary rosenblum

lead him to think there is more to her past than meets the eye. Maybe she gives him the key to the storage shed and he finds the stuff...

mary rosenblum

and goes through it and eventually reconstructs her past.

mary rosenblum

Now this could go two ways. He could unearth the solution to a mystery and it could make a nice cozy mystery story.

mary rosenblum

OR he could delve into his own feelings about that grandmother and his own past as he delved into hers...

mary rosenblum

and eventually find healing for something inside himself that needed to be healed.

mary rosenblum

So there you have a mystery or a mainstream piece from that POV.

mary rosenblum

It could be from the POV of the woman who dropped her off.

mary rosenblum

Again, this would make a nice mystery... SHE gets hold of that key and begins to sort through the storage unit. Maybe the care people even give her the key and ask her to do it for some reason.

mary rosenblum

Again...you could go mystery or it could be a mainstream piece and she could find out that the woman somehow connects to a shadowy part of her own past...

mary rosenblum

ultimately revealing a family secret that has shadowed a couple of generations.

mary rosenblum

The old woman would be a tougher POV, because I think you'd have to go first person there.

mary rosenblum

But she could be sort of standing back and watching and commenting to herself (and us) as people root through her past and decide who she must have been...

mary rosenblum

and I think to make that work, you'd need a strong end...a twist, a final revelation that does an O'Henry-esque job of turning the story on its head.

mlh

I got stuck with this trying to figure out a motive for her unwillingness to speak of her past.

mary rosenblum

Well, from her POV it could just be a sort of contrary..."I don't really matter to you, if you want to know about me, figure it out'...

mary rosenblum

OR...she could know that her past will wound the woman who found her or someone in the care facility and choose not to hurt that person.

mary rosenblum

Or she could simply be confused or have Altzheimers or be suffering from schizophrenia.

tory

or her husband was a war criminal in hiding or the family was in witness protection or...

mary rosenblum

oooh...good ones, Tory! Or she herself has spent a lifetime in the witness protection and is the famous wife of a mobster or what have you.

mary rosenblum

Send your comments to me as questions, will you?

mary rosenblum

That way they'll end up in the transcript...they don't if you use the auditorium send bar.

mary rosenblum

scotty use /ask in front of your question in the regular send bar.

scotty

what if she owned the nursing home when it was a residence

mary rosenblum

That could work. Aha! That could also turn this into a nice romance if she's trying to get two of the people together and one is related to her...

mary rosenblum

and could inherit the property.

starlighttraveler

How about she is the birth mother of the nurse?

mary rosenblum

Another good reason to be quiet. :-) That could be the mystery element here, or it could be the strong center of a more mainstream piece.

smilingsunflower

maybe she was tired of her family and wanted to get lost

mary rosenblum

That could work, too, sunflower. It could make a powerful mainstream piece if our caretaker found her history out and in the process, he --who had no family -- connected with...

mary rosenblum

our old woman who didn't want her family.

scotty

if she owned the home previously, then she may have knowledge of valuable art work hidden in the attic!

mary rosenblum

That could be. And maybe the home...a very nice one...is on the verge of closing due to financial problems...

tkat_2

or the rare coins in the safe in the parlor

mary rosenblum

Yep...or a deed to the valuable property next door or any of the above. :-)

mary rosenblum

Nice work, all!

scotty

I want to tell the story of my aunt's wartime experiences

mary rosenblum

That's very doable scotty.

mary rosenblum

There is a nonfiction subgenre of historical narrative where kids tell the story of their parents or grandparents lives.

mary rosenblum

One recent one...Field of Stones, is i THINK the title...is the story of a woman who went back...

mary rosenblum

to Serbia to search for family deaths in some of mass graves there...

mary rosenblum

it's nonfiction that has the elements of fiction and she tells her family's story beginning before WWII...

mary rosenblum

bringing the scenes to life rather than merely narrating.

mary rosenblum

It's a very popular and doable genre.

scoobysnax21

what if the old lady had comitted a murder a long time ago

mary rosenblum

That's a nother good possibility, scooby.

mary rosenblum

Our POV could face the ethical dilemma of revealing it or keeping silent if he/she discovers the truth.

scotty

what about POV for wartime story?

mary rosenblum

It is quite acceptable to go into the POV of your relatives in those years. Treat them as if they are fictional characters. Actually, if you choose to write this, I would read this woman's book. I intend to buy it, so if you email me after this...

mary rosenblum

I'll give you the exact title and ordering info. I heard an interview with the author and was highly impressed.

mary rosenblum

email me at maryrsn@comcast.net

mary rosenblum

Or from my website. www.maryrosenblum.com

tory

Mary, I think children are fascinating and can teach us many lesson, but my instruction says adult fiction cannot havechild MC unless it is nostalgia pieces. I'd like to write some adult fiction with kids as central, if not main, charachters. Do-able?

mary rosenblum

Oh goodness, Tory, that's not true... One of my most-sold stories has a ten year old boy as POV. I've earned as much as a novel advance on that story, Water Bringer.

mary rosenblum

Some of most popular short fiction has featured child POVs They can be VERY powerful..

mary rosenblum

because they allow the writer to use a 'lense of innocence' and to look at events through unbiased eyes that see the details we have learned to ignore as adults.

mary rosenblum

Look at Scout, the POV of To Kill a Mockingbird. She's very young and it is her 'lense of innocence' that gives that book the power it has.

mary rosenblum

And adult POV would bring far too much bias to the story.

tkat_2

I went to your site, Mary, and I like it .:)

mary rosenblum

Thanks tkat! I like it, too. My friend Deborah did it.

mary rosenblum

Personally, I think a child POV is one of the most powerful you can choose as a writer.... it is not easy to pull off because you have to THINK like a child...

mary rosenblum

and most of us have forgotten how to do that. :-) But if you CAN, then you instantly connect with just about every adult out there because we were ALL children once.

mary rosenblum

BUT you do need a reason to use a child POV rather than an adult...and the story itself needs to compell adult readers.

mary rosenblum

Scout shows us the dramatic and compelling events in her small town in Mockingbird.

mary rosenblum

If the plot events were boring, she wouldn't be able to hold readers as a POV, but the events and characters she sees are what hold us.

info

as a possible thought, would it be possible for a child to be the caller asking for assistance in the bat story?

mary rosenblum

Good idea, info. That could indeed work.

mary rosenblum

But do remember...

mary rosenblum

if you choose to use a child POV, the events and other characters have to carry the weight of your story.

mary rosenblum

The child is just the lense we see through.

mary rosenblum

If we have an adult POV., that character alone can carry the weight of the story.

mary rosenblum

Setting: Bayou country in Louisiana about 75 miles outside New Orleans One day after another big rain, Leroy goes walking along the tracks to think. He's unemployed again. Just can't seem to keep a job anymore. Must be getting too old. As he walks, he notices how the rain has washed out a lot of the dirt from around and underneath the tracks. He comes up on one place where it's really bad and he stops to examine it. He finds a box wrapped in plastic. He opens it. It's full of money. ,000 to be exact. He takes it home and figures his troubles are over. But his troubles are just beginning. Voodoo is for real out in the swamps and Leroy is about to discover just how real.

mary rosenblum

This is our Saturday Writers Workshop, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..

mary rosenblum

The above is another idea that got sent to me.

mary rosenblum

WEll this doesn't go very far into the actual story idea, but it's a fun one with a lot of potential.

mary rosenblum

We have Leroy who has just found a lot of money. Our first guess or course will be that it was stolen.

mary rosenblum

And someone with Vodoo skills or access to it is obviously not happy with Leroy for finding it.

mary rosenblum

So we have the obvious external plot...

mary rosenblum

of strange occurrances that are Voodoo attacks...

mary rosenblum

and if the writer really does his/her homework and gets the real Voodoo culture down...

mary rosenblum

this could be a mystery that sells very well..since that is just the kind of inside look that really does make new mystery series take off.

mary rosenblum

It might work best to have another POV other than Leroy.

mary rosenblum

The implication is that Leroy hangs onto the money and that means if it's stolen, he's not ethical enough to turn it over to the cops...

mary rosenblum

and if it's not stolen, he's not ethical enough to give it back.

mary rosenblum

And you CAN make him a loveable soundral who is a great MC for the story, or you can give him a friend who is ethical and a cop and doesn't know about the money...

mary rosenblum

but is fond of the old scoundrel and tries to get him out of the trouble he's gotten himself into even though he doesn't know the full extent of it.

mary rosenblum

You could make that person a member of the local police force and let him solve this very old crime as he saves Leroy's bacon...

mary rosenblum

That really could make a very saleable mystery novel.

mary rosenblum

Or a nice short story for Hitchcock. Maybe for Ellery Queen if you keep the Voodoo to real world events. Janet Hutcthings, the editor, will not take anything with ghosts in it.

mary rosenblum

Or supernatural elements.

mary rosenblum

However, the strength in this piece is the Voodoo culture with is much larger and more complex than the stereotype of pins stuck into dolls. :-)

mary rosenblum

Ah...

mary rosenblum

My 'marketing alarm' just went off..which it does when a REALLY good idea hits.

mary rosenblum

Make the POV a member of the Voodoo cult...he was raised by his Aunt who's a priestess...

mary rosenblum

and thus he is THE liason between the Voodoo community and the police and has to solve these crimes and keep his...

mary rosenblum

heavy handed fellow cops out of a culture they don't understand well.

mary rosenblum

Ooooh...now THAT has best seller written all over it!

mary rosenblum

And a LOT of research!

mary rosenblum

Well, I have one more 'in inventory' here. :-)

mary rosenblum

A lady who wears purple head to toe everyday. Her life hasn't been that great but she feels if she breaks up the color, bad things will happen. One day, she loses her purple shoes and runs barefoot to the nearest shoe store. The only color that comes close is pink. She puts on the pink shoes and things start to happen for the better. The outcome of this changes her life.

mary rosenblum

Now this has the makings of a charming short story...maybe one for those storyhouse coffee labels...

mary rosenblum

(And I got my first can of beans with part one of my romance series on it...GOOD coffee!!! )

mary rosenblum

What will make this work is a strong, vivid, and quirky woman.

mary rosenblum

We want someone endearing that we can be amused by but who also charms us so we want her to succeed.

mary rosenblum

Or, of course, you can put another character into this and leave us with the uneasy feeling that the other character..

mary rosenblum

has powers we don't understand and changed some sort of rule to make the color change matter...

mary rosenblum

and it could be a spooky fanasy/sf short short. Something for Talebones maybe?

mary rosenblum

In either case, I think the main thing here is SHORT>

mary rosenblum

This isn't going to be a story where we are going to become hugely involved with the character...it's sort of a punchline story that should work very welll...

mary rosenblum

with a vividly drawn character and not a lot of length.

mary rosenblum

Well, this has been a fun experiement.

mary rosenblum

Folks turned in good story ideas, and if you'll notice, it was often possible to get several very different stories, just by considering how the story would change as the POV changed.

mary rosenblum

There is ALWAYS a way to find a full story in any idea.

mary rosenblum

And one of the best things you can do for yourself as a writer...

mary rosenblum

is to do a daily 'story generating' exercise.

mary rosenblum

Pick a story from the newspaper or magazine and create a story idea from it.

mary rosenblum

It might be hard at first, but the more you do it, the easier it gets. It's my favorite game to play while stopped in rush hour traffic.

mary rosenblum

Pick someone in a car and make up a story involving that person as MC>

info

thank you Mary for giving me a great idea how to redo my scene and continue it.

mary rosenblum

I hope it works for you.

mary rosenblum

Remember...the easiest way to 'unstick' a story is the CHANGE the story.

mary rosenblum

Our tendency is to keep banging our heads against that wall, when it's usually a LOT easier to turn left or right and simply go in another direction!

mary rosenblum

Change is a GOOD thing in writing! That's why we don't use a chisel and stone tablets, remember?

speckledorf

Hey...how did the "badging" go last night?

mary rosenblum

speck is referring to my younger son, Jake. I got to pin his firefighter's badge on him yesterday evening. New member of Corvallis Fire Department...Station 2.

dbamarsha

That is so cool, Mary. Did you burst all your buttons?

mary rosenblum

Well, I managed not to cry! Modest kid...the Chief told me he got the highest score on the tests of all the new hires. Jake didn't say a word about that!

geezer

What's St, Helens doing lately?

mary rosenblum

Oh, she's just building herself a new top so she can blow it later. :-)

mary rosenblum

If you want to look at her snowy dome, there's a live camera planted near the lava dome.

mary rosenblum

Mt St Helens camera

dbamarsha

Our children do surprise us, don't they? That's really great, Mary.

mary rosenblum

Well, it IS great, marsha. How many kids really grow up to do what they want to do in life? How many end up doing what they think they NEED to do?

mary rosenblum

Well, do stop in tomorrow for our casual chat...

mary rosenblum

it's at 5 pm Pacific time, 6 pm mt, 7 pm central, and 8 pm east coast.

mary rosenblum

Thanks for coming. We'll do more of these hands on workshops. If you have suggestions for what you'd liike to participate in, drop me an email...

mary rosenblum

maryrsn@comcast.net

mary rosenblum

Have a good weekend all!

mary rosenblum

See you Sunday!

 

Return to Forum Transcripts