Forum Transcripts

Verbs: Make Them Do Double Duty 10/18/05

Event start time:

Tue Oct 18 12:06:39 2005

Event end time:

Tue Oct 18 13:40:02 2005



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Questions from the Audience are presented in red.
Answers by the Speaker are in black.
The Moderator's comments are in blue.

mary rosenblum

Hello all.

mary rosenblum

Welcome to our Tuesday Forum.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We’re talking about verbs today. If you’re new here, remember that you need to click on the ‘Ask a Question’ button or the ‘word bubble’ next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular ‘send’ bar won’t reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

mary rosenblum

You'll have to excuse any glitches here. I'm stuck with Java lite for the moment...

mary rosenblum

microsoft has done a new patch for XP that had thrown a lot of licensed software for a loop including ichat.

mary rosenblum

But since they have discomfited so many existing softwares, they'll probably fix it eventually. :-)

mary rosenblum

I wanted to talk about verbs today... This continues our discussion about enriching prose at the word-by-word level which I began last week...

mary rosenblum

with our Forum on 'beats'.

geezer

Is that why I can't download Java?

mary rosenblum

It may be, geezer. Of if you're using ichat, you may find it no longer works.

mary rosenblum

Frank, our tech guru, says Microsoft is getting a TON of complaints, so hopefully a fix will show up.

mary rosenblum

Looking at prose on the word by word level is an advanced stage of writing and it is NOT NOT NOT something you should worry about...

mary rosenblum

or even think about as you write your first draft.

mary rosenblum

The main things to worry about, as a novice writer...

mary rosenblum

is creating a real character and telling a compelling story.

mary rosenblum

That is ENOUGH to concentrate on.

mary rosenblum

Trying to think of all those 'word by word' issues as you draft is a great way to end up staring ...

mary rosenblum

at a blank screen and drooling. :-)

pook

I am still basing my characters on real people. It's hard to expand them.

mary rosenblum

Well, Pook, real characters are always based on real people. :-)

mary rosenblum

But writers tend to cobble many real people together to create that realistic character for fiction...including ourselves!

mary rosenblum

But once you have your story down... sit back.

mary rosenblum

When you're satisfied with WHAT happens, start paying attention to HOW you did it.

mary rosenblum

The common misconception is that a good story idea is all you need.

mary rosenblum

And that is not true.

mary rosenblum

Craft...the mechanics of telling a story...can make your story either weaker, if it is lacking, or even stronger than your idea suggests.

mary rosenblum

While craft will never suffice alone...it is like cutting a diamond.

mary rosenblum

You can polish that round lump of diamond without cutting and it will be pretty.

mary rosenblum

But when you cut it...add those facets...the diamond sparkles brilliantly.

mary rosenblum

It is still a diamond, but which one will most people want?

mary rosenblum

Working on those words is like cutting that diamond. You give your solid story brilliance, not just a nice polish.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We’re talking about verbs today. If you’re new here, remember that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won’t reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

mary rosenblum

The basic idea of 'craft' is to make every word do double or even triple duty.

mary rosenblum

That is especially critical in short fiction, but it will make a huge difference in the readability of your novel length work.

mary rosenblum

The fewer words your readers have to process to share the vision of your story, the more real it will seem to them and the less they will be aware that they are reading and not experiencing the story.

jackie7777

A little example please Mary.

mary rosenblum

Well, let's look at verbs since that's what we're talking about.

mary rosenblum

Verbs offer action.

mary rosenblum

Walk.

mary rosenblum

Johnny walked across the room.

mary rosenblum

What does 'walk' tell us?

mary rosenblum

It tells us that he moved forward at a gait that is slower than a run, with one foot touching the floor at any given moment. ( I believe that is the sports definition of 'walk')

mary rosenblum

That's all it tells us.

mary rosenblum

Johnny tottered across the floor.

mary rosenblum

This is still a 'walk'.

mary rosenblum

But that verb tells us a good deal more about Johnny. He may be sick. Old. Infirm.

mary rosenblum

So now that word is doing two things...describing his gait and offering us insights into his mental or physical condition.

christopher dale

jenny's hip-swinging slow jaunt across the floor drew all the young men's eyes. :-)

mary rosenblum

Jaunt is your verb here, and that hip-swinging and slow gives us 'sexy'.

mary rosenblum

If you're really pushed for word space, Chris, you could say Jenny's sashay across the floor drew alal the young mens' eyes.

mary rosenblum

For most people...certainly older readers...sashay will imply sexy, but without the vivid imagery of your version.

mary rosenblum

THe house stood next to the school...

mary rosenblum

gives us the house's position.

mary rosenblum

What else can we show the reader with a different verb? Any suggestions?

tory

Mary, got a recommendation for "walk" that means 'slowly, with intention of not drawing attention" but "tiptoe" is too extreme or obvious a move?

mary rosenblum

Tiptoed has a strong meaning for most readers, tory...someone is trying to be quiet or escape detection.

seigfried007

sagged

mary rosenblum

Okay...the house sagged next to the school.

mary rosenblum

So do you see a new, modern house or an old one?

mary rosenblum

And we didn't have to add a word of description here, yes?

monda

the house towered over the school

mary rosenblum

Okay, how we see something tall. Me, I'd imagine a mansion, I suspect...one of those tall, huge old houses you see around here. Other readers might see something different...

pook

nestled

mary rosenblum

Nestled...here we don't have a description so much as a mood...this is a warm and welcoming house.

mary rosenblum

I might imagine a cottage...something small.

christopher dale

the delapitated house was teetering near the street.

mary rosenblum

Actually, Chris, this is a great example of what you can leave out. :-)

mary rosenblum

The house teetered at the end of the street.

mary rosenblum

I don't know about you, but if a house is teetering, I'm going to see something leaning off center, really ready to fall down. :-)

mary rosenblum

SO here, the 'delapidated' is redundant and you've saved yourself a couple of words. :-) Nice example.

mary rosenblum

Thank you.

janecj333

A house moldered at the side of the road where Maggy Paine had, without more than a thought, taken her own life

mary rosenblum

And here, the moldering house coupled with the backstory of the suicide gives us the sense that the house...

mary rosenblum

has been abandoned, maybe since that suicide. Moldered is a nice, rich verb, too. :-)

mary rosenblum

Good complex resonance of rot, mold, decay, stench.

coral

The house loomed next to the school.

mary rosenblum

Good. Now we have a halloween haunted house. The Adams Family lives there!

mary rosenblum

So think about it....if we used 'stood'...how much description would we have to add to give us those various houses...

mary rosenblum

that we have been able to see by the substitution of a single word?

geezer

The house smiled as the children passed.

mary rosenblum

Nice...that kind of metaphorical description can work very well...

mary rosenblum

we don't know what the house looks like, but clearly it is cheery and warm. Happy. :-)

mary rosenblum

And realize...you do not have to force all your readers to see a yellow house with white shutters and twin rosebushes on either side of the door!

mary rosenblum

I may see a white house with blue shutters and petunias and that will be a 'smiling house' to me.

mary rosenblum

This is the 'interactive' of prose.

mary rosenblum

You allow your reader to fill in their own details.

mary rosenblum

The fact that the house smiled says 'cheery, warm, happy'

mary rosenblum

MY cheery, warm, happy house may not look like YOUR cheery, warm, happy house.

christopher dale

the house stunk of death

mary rosenblum

And while that CAN be literal, it's more likely to be another metaphorical description.

mary rosenblum

Oh yes...DO be very careful of these if you are writing SF or fantasy!

mary rosenblum

Sometyimes houses DO smile!

gwanny

The house seemed to have taken root next to the old school

mary rosenblum

I'd leave the 'seemed to have' gwanny. YOu're the author. Be confident! :-)

mary rosenblum

Rooted next to the school, the old house dreamed as the long summers passed.

mary rosenblum

But the seemed would work ...and really be necessary....if you were giving us that through a POV rather than as narrative.

mary rosenblum

Anne finally found the block where her grandmother had lived. The old house seemed to have taken root next to the school, its foundations melting into the weeds in the unkempt yard.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We’re talking about verbs today. If you’re new here, remember that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won’t reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

dub cooper

lurked

mary rosenblum

Yes, another good Halloween verb...

mary rosenblum

Waiting for unwary kids to enter!

christopher dale

the willow-wids dnaced their spring dance as the house twirled in the welcomed sun.

mary rosenblum

I take it the house IS twirling? :-)

mary rosenblum

Ah, the willow-winds danced... (Chris just sent me the correct version)...

christopher dale

I was TRYING to paint a picture of springtime after a harsh winter - obviously missed THAT mark! LOL

mary rosenblum

Oh, I think you did a good job, but I think 'twirled' is a little too active for a house..maybe smiled?

mary rosenblum

Or dreamed?

janecj333

The house had taken root next to the school, and rows of sunflowers beaten in the wind, and corn stripped by squirrels

mary rosenblum

I'd probably throw a 'surrounded by' in there so we see the sunflowers and stripped corn around it...

mary rosenblum

nice fall picture.

mary rosenblum

Actually, Chris's twirling house leads me to my next point...

mary rosenblum

which is the caveat about metaphoric verbs.

lorib

the house shrank in the shadow the old school

mary rosenblum

Good one, lorib....this is house with a timid, fearful air.

seigfried007

The house plotted under the ancient oaks. Steamed, schemed and even preened might work ;-)

mary rosenblum

I like schemed best, seig.

dub cooper

The house waited next to the school.

mary rosenblum

That one, while not as descriptive as some, suggests plot...what is it waiting for?

mary rosenblum

And all of these variations used, for the most part, a single word change.

mary rosenblum

This is the beauty of verbs...they can make VERY large changes without adding extra words at all.

mary rosenblum

In a way, they are the most overlooked and powerful tool you have.

monda

please elaborate on the verbs for POV and narrative

mary rosenblum

I will, Monda...it's an important distinction.

christopher dale

The house slept peacefully under its white blanket and its steady breath of smoke.

mary rosenblum

First I'll put Chris's example up, because I've picked on him twice now. :-)

mary rosenblum

Nice on, Chris.

mary rosenblum

Okay...

mary rosenblum

In reality, you only have 'dialogue' and 'narrative'....

mary rosenblum

but when you are using limited third POV or first person POV, we are creating the effect...

mary rosenblum

of either a character telling the story (first person) or that we are experiencing the story THROUGH the sensory perceptions of our third person character.

mary rosenblum

So in both cases, we know only what the character thinks/sees/smells/etc.

mary rosenblum

In narrative...straightforward narrative...YOU, the author are speaking.

mary rosenblum

YOU can say 'The house smiled in the spring sunshine.

mary rosenblum

You are using a metaphor to show us the house's atmosphere.

mary rosenblum

BUT...will your POV see it that way?

mary rosenblum

If your POV is a street kid who hasn't eaten since yesterday, will he think that the house is smiling?

mary rosenblum

And if your character WILL think that the house is smiling...

mary rosenblum

that character, unless she/he tends to think metaphorically quite a bit, is more likely to think: The house seemed to be smiling...

mary rosenblum

Because that character is thinking to herself and she KNOWS that the house is not smiling, this is just the effect of sun on paint, and the appearance of the place.

mary rosenblum

It's a matter of preserving verisimiltude in your character's perceptions...the foundation of strong character ization, by the way.

gwanny

The house labored under the shadow of the old school

gwanny

or, maybe that should be, "The old house labored in the shadow of the school

mary rosenblum

Well, again, gwanny, taken out of context like this, I find 'labored' a little more active than any house I've ever seen.

mary rosenblum

If you think about the words we've used here...dreamed, smiled, loomed, towered, even teetered...

mary rosenblum

which is probably the most active of them we've used...

mary rosenblum

they are all verbs that describe an action/state of being that can take place without moving from a base.

mary rosenblum

When you get into 'danced' 'twirled' even 'labored'...

mary rosenblum

you are describing actions that require movement away from a base...as in with feet or some other motivating feature.

mary rosenblum

So you are really really stretching the metaphor.

mary rosenblum

I see that every so often in novice work...

mary rosenblum

the writer who LOVES metaphor and provides me with some great chuckles as the images form in my head...but are not chuckles that the writer probably intended!

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We’re talking about verbs today. If you’re new here, remember that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won’t reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

mary rosenblum

And again...if you are writing fantasy or SF beware!

mary rosenblum

'His eyes fell to the floor' provokes giggles from most readers. :-)

mary rosenblum

THINK about how your metaphor translates literally and be sure it's really gonna work.

mary rosenblum

Of course most of us will just see the character looking down, maybe submissively, if you just use 'his eyes fell'.

mary rosenblum

But that has become a bit of a cliche, so I"d avoid that particular one.

mary rosenblum

So let's look at what NOT to use, verb wise.

mary rosenblum

Let's begin with the to be verbs.

mary rosenblum

Is.

mary rosenblum

Was

mary rosenblum

Were

mary rosenblum

are

janecj333

The shack's every wall labored under the weight of gravity, the tendency of all built things to reach a lowest common denominator

mary rosenblum

Good. There's a case where labored worked.

mary rosenblum

The context gives us a 'static' labor and again...if you notice...the house is not moving from its base.

mary rosenblum

I'm not sure I could come up with a context that makes 'twirled' work though...unless this is OZ.

mary rosenblum

One of the best gifts you'll give your story is to use your 'find' feature and see if you can't remove 8 out of 10 of your to be verbs.

mary rosenblum

I took a graduate seminar in creative writing her at PSU many years ago.

mary rosenblum

Our first assignment was a 1000 word description without one single use of to be.

mary rosenblum

That was a challenge, believe me, and one of the best writing exercises I've ever done.

pook

what was your topic , Mary?

mary rosenblum

I described a barn full of livestock as a thunderstorm loomed and broke. See? That was like 15 years ago and I STILL remember it.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We’re talking about verbs today. If you’re new here, remember that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won’t reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

mary rosenblum

Now you should not feel that you can NEVER use a to be verb.

mary rosenblum

Sometimes is or was can be the best way to do it.

mary rosenblum

But don't do it by habit.

mary rosenblum

Which is what most novices do.

mary rosenblum

Let's look back at our house examples.

mary rosenblum

The house was next to the school. It was very old and run down.

mary rosenblum

How many times did we remove the need for those twin sentences with a single verb?

mary rosenblum

The house sagged next to the school.

mary rosenblum

Compare two things here:

mary rosenblum

The length. 14 words for sentence one, 7 words for sentence two...

mary rosenblum

AND...

mary rosenblum

compare the impact.

mary rosenblum

Which gives you a stronger image?

mary rosenblum

Most readers will 'see' that old, sagging house more clearly with the second sentence...

mary rosenblum

because it processes from ink marks to image much more quickly.

mary rosenblum

That is the mechanics of showing...make the picture appear nearly instantaneously.

mary rosenblum

In One, we see a house...maybe the house next door to us..now we see a school...

mary rosenblum

and now we have to go back and turn the house next door into an old, rundown house.

mary rosenblum

LOTS of mental work.

mary rosenblum

Weaker 'showing'.

mary rosenblum

In Two: We see a house, instantly transform it to old, and put the school down next to it. Voila.

redneckgirl-7

a saggy house? wouldnt it be better to say the next to the

redneckgirl-7

school was old and run down

mary rosenblum

Why? Have you ever seen a well maintained new house that sagged?

mary rosenblum

You're using reader expectations to your advantage here, redneck...

mary rosenblum

Probably ninetynine percent of your readers will instantly assume that the house is old if you simply tell us that it sags.

mary rosenblum

That means you don't need to use all those words to tell us 'old and rundown'.

mary rosenblum

Verbs are a GREAT way to deepen characterization.

mary rosenblum

If your character is a loud, angry type...use verbs that reflect that emotional tone as you describe him...

mary rosenblum

whether he is your POV or not.

mary rosenblum

He marched across the room.

mary rosenblum

Slammed himself into his chair.

mary rosenblum

Jerked his notebook out of his desk.

mary rosenblum

He walked across the room, sat down in his chair and pulled his notebook out of his desk.

mary rosenblum

See the difference?

mary rosenblum

He marched across the room, slammed himself into his chair and jerked his notebook out of his desk.

mary rosenblum

Your reader won't be surprised at his angry outburst at the teacher if you use sentence two...

mary rosenblum

And you won't have to tell us 'Billy was angry'.

mary rosenblum

It's a great way to avoid adverbs.

mary rosenblum

I don't know, Billy said angrily.

mary rosenblum

I don't know, Billy snapped.

mary rosenblum

"I don't know." Billy slammed his desk closed.

mary rosenblum

You're TELLING us how Billy is speaking in One.

mary rosenblum

In two, the 'snapped' let's us hear his anger.

mary rosenblum

And in three, we see by his action of slamming the desk that he is angry.

seigfried007

and you won't have to add, " he yelled at Mrs. Smith because we'll already hear him yelling--at least in the jerked-notebook exmple

mary rosenblum

Yep, exactly.

mary rosenblum

After we see Billy slam himself into his seat, all you have to do for dialogue is have him say 'What?" when Mrs. Smith calls on him and we'll hear a loud, angry tone.

randi-lee

if you say "I don't know," he snarled. Then you can even see his contorted facial expression in that one.

mary rosenblum

Exactly, randi.

redneckgirl-7

how would you change "sobbing , she reached over and locked

redneckgirl-7

the door.

mary rosenblum

I don't think you need to change it at all, redneck. We see her sobbing and she reaches out to lock the door.

mary rosenblum

I might leave the 'reached over' out unless it was critical.

mary rosenblum

It's kind of a neutral action, so it dilutes the strong emotion of 'sobbing' and the implication that she is protecting herself in some way by locking that door.

seigfried007

and if he doesn't yell, have him glowering at the pages of his notebook or the broken end of pencil before the "Yes, Mrs. Smith..." and we'll hear a mumble.

mary rosenblum

Yes, seig...that's a nice way to tone down that yell...and you'll have to do something like that if you don't want the reader to hear that yell.

mary rosenblum

Do pay attention when you use verbs that suggest a strong emotional state.

mary rosenblum

If you want that emotional state to modify, you do need to make that transition clear to the reader...

mary rosenblum

or they'll hear something you don't want them to hear.

mary rosenblum

Like a shout instead of a mumble.

drowningmermaid

Don't mysteries, especially, need to obscure neutral actions

mary rosenblum

It doesn't really have anything to do with genre, drowning... neutral actions are a tool that you use for pacing...

mary rosenblum

and for moderating tension in a scene.

mary rosenblum

A lot of neutral actions...reaching for something, shrugging, stretching, walking across the room...

mary rosenblum

simply space out stronger beats and dilute the tension.

mary rosenblum

If that's what you want...they belong there...

mary rosenblum

if you are after a taut, dramatic scene, they work against you and you need strongly charged actions instead.

janecj333

'With a sob she locked the door.' tightens the prose and elimates the 'ing' then 'ed' construction

mary rosenblum

Or Sobbing, she locked the door.

paja

Are neutral actions like those beats you were talking of the other day?

mary rosenblum

They are beats. :-)

mary rosenblum

THey are neutral rather than having a strong charge.

mary rosenblum

Sobbing is a strongly charged action.

mary rosenblum

Locked isn't exactly neutral...it carries an overtone of needing safety, esepcially when coupled with sobbing.

mary rosenblum

BUT reaching doesn't convey much of anything except action.

redneckgirl-7

but dont they need to be for a murder mystery Mary

mary rosenblum

need to be what, redneck?

texasrose

Using ING verbs is okay then?

mary rosenblum

Well, when they work to the benefit of your story, yes...but now incorrectly or out of habit!

mary rosenblum

We overuse the tobe plus ing construction and it's weak.

mary rosenblum

The house was standing beside the school.

mary rosenblum

The house stood beside the school or better yet...use one of the strong, vivid verbs we used earlier.

redneckgirl-7

a strong charge

mary rosenblum

Not in every sentence, redneck. Mystery, thriller, action adventure...these genres all include a lot of dramatic scenes...

mary rosenblum

more so than say, most mainstream or romance stories...but you still vary the scenes to create peaks of dramatic tension followed by...

mary rosenblum

small relaxations so that the pace and tension are not monotonous.

mary rosenblum

You simply tend to use more dramatic moments in the 'dramatic genres' than in some other genres.

texasrose

The word AND can be tough to replace. Any suggestions?

mary rosenblum

YOu can't, texas.

mary rosenblum

WE need some of those bland words... 'the, a, an, and, but'...

mary rosenblum

but you don't HAVE to use the bland is, are, was,were. So don't.

randi-lee

Greedy fingers of the naked branches grabbed for her as she ran terrified through the trees. The hoofbeats on the cobblestones grew nearer. Her screams were stifled as icy fingers enveloped her neck.

mary rosenblum

Good images. Now let's get rid of that were.

mary rosenblum

Come on. It's easy to do. :-)

drowningmermaid

I'd take out terrified.

mary rosenblum

WEll, we don't really need it because randi did a great job of showing us a scene where she HAS to be terrified...

mary rosenblum

so it's redundant.

randi-lee

Her screams stifled as Icy fingers enveloped her neck.

mary rosenblum

Gramatically that doens't quite work...you'll have to recast that sentence.

janecj333

just a comma suffices for 'and' in a lot of cases...He ate the apple, drank the beer, vomitted quietly into his shoe.

mary rosenblum

Although here, I think you need that final and or the reader comes to an abrupt halt. :-)

mary rosenblum

Sort of like a horse balking at a fence.

seigfried007

She opened her mouth to scream but frigid fingers wrapped around her throoat, chooking her plea.

mary rosenblum

And this is a nice example of putting us into her POV...

drowningmermaid

Icy fingers enveloping her neck stifled her screams?

mary rosenblum

Icy fingers closed around her neck, stifling her screams.

tory

ICy fingers enveloped her throat and stifled her screams.

mary rosenblum

And there you go.

mary rosenblum

Taking out was or were often forces you deeper into the POV of your character.

paja

Icy fingers squeezed her screams into silence.

mary rosenblum

Ooo good one, paja.

seigfried007

I'd leave out eveloped--tehy're not cradling or engulfing, they're choking, seizing or throttling.

mary rosenblum

I agree...enveloped actually has a softer nuance...more like cloaking...mist enveloped the farmhouse...

mary rosenblum

Here, you want a verb that suggests violence.

mary rosenblum

Choked, closed, squeezed,

pook

How do you eliminate was "The manager was known for building empires"?

mary rosenblum

I'd probably use something like "The manager built empires. Even the shoeshine boy bowed when he passed'.

mary rosenblum

something like thatl

mary rosenblum

Or The manager built empires. Everybody knew it.

mary rosenblum

Well, I"m going to have to break here. We're past our Oregon Hour...

mary rosenblum

and I"m going to be meeting with our guest for Thursday, Nancy Raines Day to show her how to use the stage.

mary rosenblum

Thanks for coming, allo.

mary rosenblum

All!

mary rosenblum

I'll post the transcript in the usual place:

mary rosenblum

Writing Craft: Forum Transcripts

texasrose

Can ING be used as a past tense verb? e.i. "Paul climbed into the driver's seat placing the injured bird on his lap." Or should it be "and placed the injured bird...

mary rosenblum

The ing construction is generally used to denote an ongoing action that takes place in comparison to a more narrowly defined action.

mary rosenblum

Caroline was doing her homework when Billy arrived.

mary rosenblum

She was in the process of doing her homework and Billy's arrival (a discrete event) interrupted that longer action.

mary rosenblum

I was brushing my teeth when I saw the ghost from the corner of my eye.

texasrose

Mary, Caroline is my first name! Wow...

mary rosenblum

Ooowooo....must be channeling!

mary rosenblum

Okay, got to go pull the transcript here before Nancy shows up.

mary rosenblum

Feel free to stick around and say hi.

 

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