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mary rosenblum
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Hello, all.
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mary rosenblum
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Welcome to our Tuesday Forum.
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mary rosenblum
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I hope you all had a great
weekend and are enjoying our early fall days.
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mary rosenblum
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Hard to believe that the
equinox is day after tomorrow! The solstice was just a week ago, I swear.
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lore alley
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Hey Mary! Got my acceptance
letter for the LR course. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Way to go, Lore. I didn't
doubt that you would. :-) I've seen a couple of samples of your prose in
our workshops, remember?
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wingedwarrior24
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congrats lore
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mary rosenblum
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I thought of this topic today
for a couple of reasons.
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mary rosenblum
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Nearly everybody includes too
many words in early drafts.
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mary rosenblum
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And taking them out helps the
story or article reveal its power.
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mary rosenblum
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AND...when you get into the
world of publishing, there are some realistic and practical reasons for
removing words and you will face them.
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mary rosenblum
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For example, in the novel that
will be out next year, I had to remove 8000 words in order to bring it
under 110,000 words or the hardcover and paperbacks would cost more.
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mary rosenblum
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I didn't want new readers to
be deterred by an extra high price...books cost enough already...but my
editor and I agreed that I could NOT cut any content...
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mary rosenblum
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not one scene!
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mary rosenblum
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So I had to simply trim 8000
words out of the ms without making any noticeable changes.
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mary rosenblum
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And it's actually not
difficult. You just have to put on your 'reading glasses'.
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redraven
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Writer's diet
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mary rosenblum
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Exactly, red.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're
talking about trimming words. If you're new here, remember that you need to
click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question
mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to
ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type
/ask in front of your question to reach me.
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redraven
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Decluttering prose is a bit like
decluttering the house - fo
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mary rosenblum
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It is indeed, red...and there
are various levels of cutting.
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mary rosenblum
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The first level is content
change...you generally do that on the first revision...change the plot,
remove whole scenes or even subplots...
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mary rosenblum
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alter structure in other
words. You are adding or deleting content to make the piece balance.
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gskearney
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Hope it's not like decluttering
the house, or I'm hopelessly lost. Pack rat is my middle name. --gk
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mary rosenblum
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That's okay, gsk, some of the
cleanest prose writers in the world..without a speck of unnecessary
verbage...live in floor to ceiling chaos. I know because I've been in their
houses! LOL
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mary rosenblum
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Once you are satisfied with
your content...your scenes all work, your dramatic arc is as strong as you
can make it...THEN you begin to pare away the extra words.
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mary rosenblum
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And that is hard for novice
writers.
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janmaya
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How do you know what best to
remove
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mary rosenblum
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And that is WHY it is hard for
novice writers! :-) We wanted those words in there, that's why we used
'em..
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mary rosenblum
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choosing which of our children
to sacrifice is not easy.
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mary rosenblum
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But it's important to remove
'em.
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mary rosenblum
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Think of it in physical terms.
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mary rosenblum
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Take a muscular, lean horse, a
well muscled dog, an athlete.
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mary rosenblum
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Gorgeous body and lot's of
muscular power...we see it in a glance.
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mary rosenblum
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Now add lots of extra weight
to those critters.
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mary rosenblum
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All of a sudden we have flabby
bodies and no sign of those muscles.
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mary rosenblum
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Maybe they are there, under
the flab, but they're not visible.
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mary rosenblum
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So we assume they don't exist.
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mary rosenblum
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All those excess words are
flab or think of fog...you can't see the gorgeous landscape because it is
blurred by the fog.
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tami74
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Mary, I think a lot of us could
learn from the traditional Native culture...I have an Ojibway friend who
says very little but his words are breathtaking!
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mary rosenblum
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We are very verbose in
conversation, tami, yes. Culturally, it is considerred antisocial in our
North American society to be silent.
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mary rosenblum
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But many other cultures do not
value chatter, not just the Native American cultures.
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mary rosenblum
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AND...this is another weakness
for most early writers...they use conversational English for prose.
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mary rosenblum
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Conversational style only
works in dialague. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're
talking about trimming words. If you're new here, remember that you need to
click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red
question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in
order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can
also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
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mary rosenblum
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So how DO you know what is
important?
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mary rosenblum
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You can do that on two levels
and should, if you're seriously trying to remove words.
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telcontar
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what do you mean by
"conversational English"
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mary rosenblum
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The English you use when
you're talking to your friends, Tel.
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mary rosenblum
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It tends to be grammatically
poor, full of idiom, punctuation by place holders like 'would' or 'like' so
that we have time to guage the other's reaction to what we are saying and
to organize our thoughts.
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mary rosenblum
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And everybody uses it...if you
don't you sound highly stilted and like an 'outsider'.
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writewoman13
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As opposed to....?
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janmaya
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What should you use besides
conversational English, please e
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mary rosenblum
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The right words to convey the
image you want your reader to see in the minimal number of invisible
words...OR...a narrative style that is highly engaging and unique..
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mary rosenblum
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and enhances the story by
drawing attention to itself.
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mary rosenblum
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That's why you LEARN to write
prose by practice.
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mary rosenblum
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It's not just a matter of
thinking up a cool idea and telling the story in your own words.
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mary rosenblum
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YOU know that story or that
information...
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mary rosenblum
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but the work part of writing
is allowing the reader to translate ink marks clearly into what you KNOW.
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mary rosenblum
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We don't do telepathy well, so
we have to depend on those ink marks.
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ducky
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The narrative around my
characters' dialogue is usually a cleaned up version of the speaker's
internal dialogue. Zat okay?
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mary rosenblum
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Absolutely, ducky.
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mary rosenblum
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If you can preserve your
character's voice in the narrative portion of the piece, you will have cut
your narrative distance to about zero...
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mary rosenblum
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Let me give you an example of
what I mean by excess words.
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mary rosenblum
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Every day Janine would walk
past Zoe's house and she always whistled.
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mary rosenblum
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Every day Janine walked past
Zoe's house, whistling.
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mary rosenblum
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I simply removed words that
didn't matter here.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the level of trimming
I'm talking about.
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mary rosenblum
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I took out what...four words?
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mary rosenblum
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But four words multiplie by
many many sentences...you do the math.
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mary rosenblum
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And the removal of those words
changed nothing in the sentence.
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...
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mary rosenblum
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The reader had to read that
longer sentence and use up precious mental energy to put that picture
together.
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mary rosenblum
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That picture appeared more
quickly and with less conscious effort in the second version.
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ducky
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But wouldn't it be better for
that to be an action statement: "Whistling, Janine walked past Zoe's
house as she did every day.
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ladybug
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or daily Janine walked past
zoe's house and whistled?
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mary rosenblum
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They all three work.
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mary rosenblum
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YOur choice would depend on
the rhythm of the paragraph. I merely kept the sentence structure the same
so that the comparison was as clear as possible.
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mary rosenblum
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A lot of sentence order choice
depends on the esthetic rhythm of the prose.
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mary rosenblum
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You strive for a particular
rhythm...smooth and flowing if the tension is low, hard and choppy if you
want to imply threat, stress, exertion and so forth.
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rcourt929
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but, just as fat flalors the
meat, if our words are too lean won't the words be too sharp to the
readers...there must be some sort of balance?
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mary rosenblum
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Of course there has to be
balance.
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mary rosenblum
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Much of writing is learning to
walk a fence rail between 'too much' and 'too little' and you fall off a
LOT on either side.
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mary rosenblum
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I still depend on readers to
confirm that I"ve managed to stay on that rail, although I fall off
less often than I did when I was starting out.
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mary rosenblum
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(When it was an achievement to
get there at all).
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mary rosenblum
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I have students whose prose is
too lean, no visuals.
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mary rosenblum
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I have more students whose
good story is buried in layers and layers of words. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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I see the second example far
more often than the first.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're
talking about trimming words. If you're new here, remember that you need to
click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red
question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in
order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can
also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
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mary rosenblum
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An excellent tool for taking
out a lot of unneeded words is Ken Rand's The 10% Solution.
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mary rosenblum
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He offers some exercises with
your word processor that will help you identify and remove weak and
unnecessary phrases.
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mary rosenblum
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It's available for about 7
dollars from Fairwood Press: www.fairwoodpress.com
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ashton
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But if you are working on a
short story and word count is strict, if the flow and balance is right
wouldn't it be better to use the shortest amount of words possible if the
meaning is the same?
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mary rosenblum
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Always, ashton.
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mary rosenblum
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You really don't want any word
that you do not need in prose.
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mary rosenblum
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That goes for fiction and
nonfiction. If it does not need to be there, if you can say the same thing
just as well with fewer words, do it.
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...there are times when
more really is better, so again, you have to find balance.
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ducky
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A test I've been using is
"does this phrase [sentence, paragraph] advance the plot? or is it
chatter? What about that?
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mary rosenblum
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I use a test that is a bit
broader than that, ducky, since you also need to enrich the scene and
deepen the characterization in each scene as well as advance the plot...
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mary rosenblum
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I ask myself 'will the reader
still get what I want 'em to get here if I take this out?'
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mary rosenblum
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Sometimes the answer is
yes...the detail is nice, but not absolutely necessary.
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mary rosenblum
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Then I'll cut it.
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mary rosenblum
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Other times, yes, it needs to
stay. It gives us a bit of insight into the character we otherwise won't
have...
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mary rosenblum
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it shows us something about
the scene that will be important...
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mary rosenblum
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or it moves the plot or a
subplot forward.
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starr r
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When someone has a story that is
buried in layers of words, how do you crit them w/o hurting feelings?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, starr, you can always
point out problems without hurting feelings.
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mary rosenblum
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When I get a verbose story,
I'll point out the strong structure of the story to the writer and then
give an example of how to remove words from a paragraph or two...
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mary rosenblum
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so that the writer can see by
comparison how much more vivid that makes the scene.
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mary rosenblum
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It's always a good idea to
start out with what is strong before you start pointing out what is not
strong. :-)
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ashton
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Do you, by any chance, save all
those wonderfully descriptive sentences/words/paragraphs you've cut for the
future by filing them anywhere? Or do ya just toss them?
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mary rosenblum
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I don't save small fragments,
ashton. They'll come back when I want 'em...I learned to trust that years
ago.
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mary rosenblum
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But if I have to cut a big
scene or an action sequence and it's really cool, I might file it in my
'misc' file for later recycling.
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mary rosenblum
|
This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're
talking about trimming words. If you're new here, remember that you need to
click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red
question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in
order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can
also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
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gskearney
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One thing that I've found
helpful is writing poetry. You learn how to select words and say exactly
what you mean even if the result is not really good poetry. --gk
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mary rosenblum
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It's a good practice if you
enjoy writing poetry, gk. I don't, but I find that writing short shorts of
1000 words gives you the same exercise.
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mary rosenblum
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You MUST select the bare bones
minimum of words and thus, they must be the strongest possible word and if
possible each word should do more than one thing.
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telcontar
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I struggle with Show/Tell when
writing a short story and there isn't time to go into the mood of the room
and what color the walls are etc. Any suggestions?
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mary rosenblum
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Yep...this is a common
problem. :-) One of those things that turn into work. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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The trick is to pick out the
one, two, or three details that will convey the mood of the room without
all that detail.
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mary rosenblum
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Yeah, you'd like to go into
the pink walls, rosebud quilt and lace-draped canopy bed in the young
girl's bedroom, with its white painted furniture and pile rose and pink
satin cushions in the corner...
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mary rosenblum
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but because of what is going
in the scene, you might have to settle for... He peeked into the
fairy-princess bedroom, but the white canopy bed was empty.
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mary rosenblum
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We know it's her bedroom, we
see a white canopy bed and that 'fair princess' description lets each
reader fill in his/her version of the details I just mentioned.
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mary rosenblum
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Yes we'll all see our own
version, but the overall effect...a fluffy, pretty, very feminine bedroom'
will be consistent.
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mary rosenblum
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A very good exercise to convey
mood is to do this...
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mary rosenblum
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when you are entering a
strange space...a new doctor's office...
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mary rosenblum
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a store you haven't visited,
whatever...
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mary rosenblum
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Look around for fifteen
seconds...no cheating...then walk out, sit down and list every detail you
noticed.
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mary rosenblum
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Then find the overall label
for the effect...
'office'....'instution'...'neat'...'cluttered'....'dingy'...
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mary rosenblum
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Now you know what registered
on YOUR mind and you're probably not that different than the average
reader.
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telcontar
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LOL... just reinforce that
"crazy writer" reputation.... walk in, look around, walk out,
squat on the curb and scribble notes...
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mary rosenblum
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Laughing ,Tel. I bet I have
convinced many people in this universe that they were watching a crazy
woman...
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mary rosenblum
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counting strides between trees
in the park...taking pictures of street corners at rush hour...
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mary rosenblum
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Actually, I have to be a bit
careful now. When I was researching a long ago SF book, I was out at
Bonneville dam taking pictures of ...
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mary rosenblum
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all kinds of secure areas,
waterways, gates...I'd probably have been stopped and questioned if it had
been post 911.
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redraven
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How do writers avoid
oversensitivity to others' reactions?
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mary rosenblum
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What kind of reactions, red?
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mary rosenblum
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To your writing or your
behavior when researching?
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telcontar
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don't worry, Mary... I'm sure
you could use the inside of a police station in some future story
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mary rosenblum
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Oh of course, tel. :-) I've
visited many, asking verisimilitude questions for my mysteries. :-)
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redraven
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Well, looking at you oddly if
you are taking notes or observ
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mary rosenblum
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Just don't notice them
noticing you, red. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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No kidding. Between dog
training, which I do in very public space because that's where my dogs
work, and research for writing...
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mary rosenblum
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I do all kinds of weird and
crazy things. I rarely notice any reaction because I'm simply not looking
for it.
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redraven
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Or put their reactions into my
story, maybe?
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mary rosenblum
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That would be fun...have a
mystery writer as a MC who gets into all kinds of situations doing
research. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're
talking about trimming words. If you're new here, remember that you need to
click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red
question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in
order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can
also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
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janecj333
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If you're often relying on
adjectives to shorten your prose, the reader will tire of it. I sure do.
Can you give us a better example?
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mary rosenblum
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Jane, you really can't live
without adjectives.
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mary rosenblum
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HOwever, a lot of adjectives
takes up time and tends to bore readers who aren't that interested in the
scenery.
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mary rosenblum
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What you need to do is to find
the two or one or three adjectives that do a LOT of work...
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mary rosenblum
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that is convey not only
visuals but mood, nuance, even characterization.
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mary rosenblum
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Adjectives are like
spices...the right amount makes food taste better, too much or too little
and the food doesn't taste as good.
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mary rosenblum
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You can show the reader a lot
about a scene by letting your POV character DO things...
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mary rosenblum
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but if that doesn't work for
the pace of the scene, a well placed adjective or two is a better choice.
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lore alley
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I think I have the opposite
problem! I would be bored describing in detail the young girl's bedroom and
would be much happier just showing the "essence" of that room, so
to speak. Am I weird? ;-)
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mary rosenblum
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Not at all, but again, it is
what works for this scene.
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mary rosenblum
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Realize that if you are
writing for readers, you are not writing just for yourself.
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mary rosenblum
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You are writing for a broad
cross section of people with different experience, likes, and dislikes.
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mary rosenblum
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The craft of writing is
learning how to create something that a lot of very different people can
read and enjoy.
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mary rosenblum
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If you just do what YOU like
and put your likes ahead of the story, you'll please yourself and readers
who are very much like you but not many others.
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mary rosenblum
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That's why we work on getting
the right words and making them clear...
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mary rosenblum
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so that people who are not
quite like us, or don't share the same experience, will still share the
same story.
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mary rosenblum
|
This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're
talking about trimming words. If you're new here, remember that you need to
click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red
question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in
order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can
also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
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ashton
|
Another fun trick is to have a
friend of yours do that...someone who is maybe shy...just the opposite of
you and see what they notice as apposed to you. That works to your
advantage when writing a character different from you in many ways.
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mary rosenblum
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The observation trick...that's
a good idea, ashton.
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mary rosenblum
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I used to do something like
that with two writer friends.
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mary rosenblum
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We would get together for
lunch...outdoors if possible...and people watch.
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mary rosenblum
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Each of us would give a
'backstory' for what a particular person was doing...
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mary rosenblum
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made up of extrapolations from
what we observed. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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It was a nice comparison of
what each of us saw and guessed from clothes, dress, body language, and the
like.
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mary rosenblum
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And as I've talked about in
other forums...
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mary rosenblum
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what your charcter notices
reveals a LOT about that person's personality.
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mary rosenblum
|
This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're
talking about trimming words. If you're new here, remember that you need to
click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question
mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to
ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type
/ask in front of your question to reach me.
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mary rosenblum
|
A very good exercise when
you've finished at least your second draft is to reread carefully...
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mary rosenblum
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and look for redundancies.
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mary rosenblum
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Especially in novel length
work, it's easy to say something and forget that you said it, repeat it
later.
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mary rosenblum
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Happens in short stories, too.
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mary rosenblum
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If you mentioned the large
house in scene one, no reason to repeat that it's a large house later in
the story.
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mary rosenblum
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Watch out for passive voice
and particularly for the 'to be' verbs.
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mary rosenblum
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Not only do the increase the
length of sentences, you will have much stronger prose if you use vivid
verbs rather than the 'to be' verbs.
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bookworm4fun
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I find I get BORED with my
descriptions of people and how they look--square jaws, penetrating eyes,
etc. Any ideas on how to keep it fresh, especially in a novel?
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mary rosenblum
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Sure. Leave it out, book. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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A laundry list of your
character's details IS boring.
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mary rosenblum
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We don't really need to know
much...each reader will see his/her own ideal.
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mary rosenblum
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But you do want your readers
on the same page roughly.
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mary rosenblum
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It is VERY disconcerting to
find out halfway through a story that the little old lady you see is
actually thirty!
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mary rosenblum
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Or the MC is African American
rather than white, or white rather than Asian or what have you.
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mary rosenblum
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And woe to you if your reader
thinks your MC is the wrong gender!
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mary rosenblum
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I made that mistake once.
Whew. Heard about it for a looooong time.
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mary rosenblum
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So make sure we get gender,
age, any physical eccentricities... ie in a wheelchair, blind, missing
fingers, etc...
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mary rosenblum
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and let the reader take it
from there.
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tory
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Wrong gender MC must be hard to
do. How did you avoid "he" or "she"?
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mary rosenblum
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Oh it's VERY easy in first
person, tory. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Reader ALWAYS assumes the MC
is the same gender as the author.
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mary rosenblum
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Subtle clues are not enough,
as I found out!
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mary rosenblum
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That story was illustrated
with a woman rather than a man in the scene. :-) The editor cropped it and
sent me the original art...
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mary rosenblum
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payment for laughing at me for
a long time. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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And I did hear from fans that
I had taken a number of people by surprise.
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mary rosenblum
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Learned MY lesson.
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starr r
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Will you tell us ways to show a
1st pers. POV character descrip without using reflections? I hate seeing
that in a story.
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mary rosenblum
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Yeah, that reflection is
always seen for the device that it is, starr.
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mary rosenblum
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The easiest way is to let your
POV compare himself/herself to someone else.
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mary rosenblum
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I looked up and found this
woman standing at my desk. She was about my age, maybe late twenties.
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mary rosenblum
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You really don' t need much in
the way of description in first person.
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mary rosenblum
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Gender and age will do,
generally.
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mary rosenblum
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And any unusual attributes.
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mary rosenblum
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Remember...you can make reader
assumptions work FOR you.
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mary rosenblum
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If your character is pretty
ordinary... you dont need much description.
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mary rosenblum
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Give the reader age and gender
and that's close enough.
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telcontar
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lol SO glad I'm not the only one
who shocks readers with a different gender 1st person POV... threw my
instructor for a loop, poor man...
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mary rosenblum
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Well, you really don't want to
do that. :-) And it can be hard to get that darn gender thing in early. But
it's a real must.
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starr r
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I def. agree with that--but I've
had readers ask, "Well, what color was her HAIR?" ...like that
really matters. But what then?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, starr, you know what?
Readers will always want something that you didn't include.
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mary rosenblum
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And if you satisfied every
reader out there, you'd have this bloated story that would be pretty
unreadable. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Just tell 'em when they ask
you. :-)
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telcontar
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Oh I went and fixed that little
problem in the first paragraph... but his reaction was so stunned...
"Wait... this is a GUY?!"
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mary rosenblum
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Well, that might have been a
character comment, tel...
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mary rosenblum
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Maybe he didn't act like a
guy.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're
talking about trimming words. If you're new here, remember that you need to
click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question
mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to
ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type
/ask in front of your question to reach me.
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mary rosenblum
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Most new writers think they
need to use much more narrative description than they really do.
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mary rosenblum
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Readers are great at
set-building if you give 'em a couple of critical starting points.
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mary rosenblum
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An office is an office is an
office...again, use reader assumptions.
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mary rosenblum
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If your office setting is your
basic cubicle, you don't need to describe the pictures and cartoons tacked
to the wall, the monitor, keyboard, cluttered desk, office chair...ho hum.
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mary rosenblum
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Pick out a detail or two that
reflects the character's personality...
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mary rosenblum
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the wall is papered with
Dilbert cartoons or pictures of cats...
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mary rosenblum
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but don't waste words on
description that readers can take care of.
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mary rosenblum
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Again...choose your details.
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mary rosenblum
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Pick that one or two or three
that do more than just give us visuals...
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mary rosenblum
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but also give us a mood or
offer a clue about the MC's character. (those pictures of cats, for
example).
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mary rosenblum
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seig, do /ask not the other
way around. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Then it will come to me...it's
a good question.
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geezer
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He noticed the leaves in his
hair when he looked at the mirror. A few swipes with the brush an dthey
were gone. "There, now I look like the wise old sage. Bad?
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mary rosenblum
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Not at all, geeze. Yes, he's
looking in the mirror and we all know that's to show him to us, but you've
given him a reason.
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mary rosenblum
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Somethings there simply is no
better way to do it that doesn't feel contrived.
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seigfried007
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some people will stop reading if
they can't 'see' a character, so i try to fit in the basics--if nothing
else 'cause most of mine aren't human and their anatomies throw people for
whirls
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mary rosenblum
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You DO need the basics...as I
said, gender/age for sure with people. When you write SF you have a
particular problem..
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mary rosenblum
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if you are using a POV that is
not human.
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mary rosenblum
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And lord help you if you are
doing first person with such a character. It really takes work to let the
reader see that nonhuman shape in first person.
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mary rosenblum
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You can do it, but it's going
to take some serious thought.
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mary rosenblum
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Remember...the details you
share should matter...if they don't convey something important to the
reader...such as the hair color...it's just brown and wavy, pretty typical
hair...
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mary rosenblum
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then leave it out.
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mary rosenblum
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If it is unusual or it conveys
more than mere appearance... say cornrowed blonde braids woven with
metallic red thread... include it.
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mary rosenblum
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That's not 'just hair' that's
an unusual hair style for a white woman and it suggests some things about
who she is.
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mary rosenblum
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So you include it.
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janecj333
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I remember reading Clan of the
Cavebear, how the description was fresh, but by the third book description
had taken over. It was like reading a one hour tv movie stretched to three
to fit in all the commercials. I do tend to have to fight with myself to
add in enough description, now
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mary rosenblum
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Well, there were some problems
in craft with the later books, certainly.
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mary rosenblum
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And again, there's that fine
line between too much and too little.
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mary rosenblum
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And of course 'much' and
'little' depend on what you are trying to achieve in a particular scene.
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starr r
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I never add enough descrip
either. Is it just practice, forcing yourself?
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mary rosenblum
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Sure, starr... Does anyone sit
down at the piano for the very first time and play a Beethoven Piano
Sonata?
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mary rosenblum
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You get there by playing
scales, doing exercises, practicing, practicing, practicing...
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mary rosenblum
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There is a myth that you are
'born' a writer, that you leap like Athena from Zeus's head, fully endowed
with all the skill and talent you will ever have.
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mary rosenblum
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Ha.
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mary rosenblum
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Everyone has more or less
talent with words, but the craft of making them work powerfully is more
akin to learning how to play the piano.
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mary rosenblum
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You are NOT born with a skill
set. You LEARN a skill set.
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redraven
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I see my scenes; it is hard to
"see" that the reader doesn't
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mary rosenblum
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ANd that, red, is the core of
the problem. We SEE what is there. Little description is necessary.
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...until we discover the
telepathic hyperlink to insert in our text...we are stuck with creating
those images with ink marks.
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lore alley
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Now, physical description is one
thing that I DO like to include! Is it "okay" to put it in even
if it's typical, or only if it's important to the story?
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mary rosenblum
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It really doesn't help your
story to include thingx that aren't important. You can get away with it in
a novel length work, but you know what? Your story will be weaker than
those where the author didn't include extraneous stuff.
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mary rosenblum
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And in the competitive world
of writing/publishing that means you may not get read.
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mary rosenblum
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Remember...are you writing for
yourself, what YOu want to read? Or are you writing to share your world
with others?
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mary rosenblum
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If you really are writing to
please yourself and just want to be published, that's fine.
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mary rosenblum
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You can publish with iUniverse
and have a published book that will be available on amazon.com and it won't
cost you much.
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mary rosenblum
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There is NOTHING wrong with
doing that.
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mary rosenblum
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If you want to sell your book
to a publisher and get it into bookstores in a big way, reach a lot of
readers, then you need to focus on the needs of the story, not what you
want to read.
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owlybear
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To see what we write , we almost
have to disassociate ourselves from our story and read it like it's someone
elses that we're reading in order to understand what the reader is seeing,
don't we?
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mary rosenblum
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That's true Owly, and I don't
believe you can ever get there. I'm much better at it than I was when I
started, but I STILL can't see my own work with the objectivity of someone
else.
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mary rosenblum
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And THAT is why we have
editors. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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That is THEIR job.
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seigfried007
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what if the character being
typical is part of his character? he's a schmoe with a desk job and short
straight light brown hair that shaves every morning and eats corn flakes
for breakfast?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, seig, that's fine, but
why exactly do I want to spend time reading about him?
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mary rosenblum
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He can be boring, but you'd
better give me something to interest me here...
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mary rosenblum
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like something unexpected that
shatters his routine.
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seigfried007
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get other people to read it!
they will find holes big enought to march Hannibal's elepants thorugh!!1
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mary rosenblum
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I'm laughing...not if you
don't LEAVE holes, seig. But readers are invaluable.
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mary rosenblum
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I generally give my work to
three or four for the novel length stuff...at least a couple for short
stories.
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gail
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I like to have char.
descriptions "noticed" by another character. This builds
characterization is two ways: The reader "sees" the character
being viewed, and better "understands" the focus of the char.
doing the viewing.
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mary rosenblum
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Exactly, gail.
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mary rosenblum
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And that comparison is very
effective in first person.
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mary rosenblum
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Well, this has been a fun
Oregon Hour.
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cosmos
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I compare what needs to be
described in writing a book to people I sometimes come in contact with who
lack communication skills and expect you to "guess" what's on
their mind. People often assume you know what they expect. As a writer you
need to be careful not to assume and write down what's important for the
reader to know.
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mary rosenblum
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Well said, cosmos.
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seigfried007
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(coughs her lemonade) the
ordinary guy in extaordinary circumstances!!!!! understanding the truly
schmoe is hard work! ask his schmho girlfriend!!!
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mary rosenblum
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You STILL have to make it
interesting, seig. That's YOUR job. :-)
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cosmos
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Mary, how many people in the
forum are from Oregon
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mary rosenblum
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Dunno. Me.
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marina
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Could we have a short example of
what Gail has just said, please? Thanks
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mary rosenblum
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Okay...last example and then
I'll post the transcript in Writing Craft: Forum Transcript.
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mary rosenblum
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Jeremy eyed the new kid. Wimpy
looking, about a head shorter even than him. Glasses. Jimbo was gonna make
his life hell for sure. Jeremy opened his math book as Jimbo said something
to him. The new kid blushed. Geeze...he was asking for it.
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mary rosenblum
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We see that the new kid is
probably kind of skinny with glasses and not very tall (and we know that
Jeremy isn't very tall either)...
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mary rosenblum
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and blushes easily...so
probably has fair skin.
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mary rosenblum
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And Jeremy who clearly isn't a
bully himself is sensitive to what is in store for the kid, and probably
has suffered from Jimbo himself.
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mary rosenblum
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If this was my story, I'd be
setting Jeremy up to befriend the new kid.
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mary rosenblum
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He's wary but he feels sorry
for him.
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mary rosenblum
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Okay...see you all at our
casual chat in the morning!
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mary rosenblum
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Same time as this forum...but
we just get together to talk about whatever.
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mary rosenblum
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Have a good week, all!
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mary rosenblum
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See you in the morning.
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