Forum Transcripts

Transitions: Skip the Boring Part 7/13/04

Event start time:

Tue Jul 13 12:03:22 2004

Event end time:

Tue Jul 13 13:32:29 2004



Legend:
Questions from the Audience are presented in red.
Answers by the Speaker are in black.
The Moderator's comments are in blue.

mary rosenblum

Hello, all!

mary rosenblum

I hope you had a great weekend!

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

mary rosenblum

I've had quite a few email questions about transitions from people who can't make the Forum in person...

mary rosenblum

I gather that this is a topic of interest to many. And it's a critical one in the world of pacing.

mary rosenblum

It would be nice if our stories flowed along like the original Indian Jones movie Raiders of the Lost Ark that came out a decade or two ago...

mary rosenblum

which had a life and death cliff hanger every fifteen minutes and action in between! :-)

mary rosenblum

There WERE no slow spots.

mary rosenblum

But in our fiction, short and long, we end up having to get our character through a long, boring day before the action starts again...

mary rosenblum

or we need to span a few years and can't afford to bore readers with a long account of not much.

mary rosenblum

And in reality, writing a scene without a lot of dramatic tension is MUCH harder than writing a fight or flight scene.

mary rosenblum

Action is a matter of choreography. Making a boring day at work interesting is a challenge!

mary rosenblum

And that is where transitions are useful tools.

jackie7777

How do I span several years in 2 chapters or less?

mary rosenblum

This is the question that I received most often in the past days or so.

mary rosenblum

Even in a short story, you sometimes need to leap ahead a few years.

mary rosenblum

There are a couple of ways to do this.

mary rosenblum

One is to use a skipped line and centered * to indicate a change in time and/or place.

mary rosenblum

Now if you do this, you must ground the reader FIRMLY in the new time and/or place when you begin.

mary rosenblum

Readers will assume that not much time has passed as 'default'.

mary rosenblum

If a lot of time has passed...more than a day, say...you need to make it very very clear.

mary rosenblum

The longer the lapsed time, the more words you need to spend on those first 'grounding' sentences.

mary rosenblum

If, say, a week has passed, you might only need a sentence. Here's an example:

mary rosenblum

Angelina waved good-bye to her grandmother as she climbed the steps of the bus. As it pulled away from the station, she craned her neck to keep the tiny, stooped figure in sight as long as possible.

mary rosenblum

*

mary rosenblum

That indicates change in time/place.

mary rosenblum

A week later, Angelina was still adjusting to dorm life. She missed Granny. A lot.

mary rosenblum

Okay, I have made the transition in a single sentence here.

mary rosenblum

A week later, Angelina was still adjusting to dorm life. We know when we are and where we are right away. That is all that is needed.

mary rosenblum

But what if we want to skip ahead five years? That is going to take at least a brief summary of that gap. It's too big to simply leap across as we did with our week.

mary rosenblum

Sure, things happened in a week, but probably not much. However, in five years, things surely happened that developed this character, changed her in some ways...

mary rosenblum

and we need to aknowlege them.

frazz

Do you have to use the *?

mary rosenblum

Yes, frazz, you do. It is to tell the editor that you skipped the line on purpose...

mary rosenblum

it's not just a printer hiccough.

mary rosenblum

And sometimes that transitional skipped line occurs at the bottom of the page. Uh oh.

mary rosenblum

In the published form, it will usually be nothing but a skipped line.

frazz

Couldn't that just be the next sentence?

mary rosenblum

Not a good idea, frazz.

mary rosenblum

Remember, you are writing for a lot of strangers and not all of them are careful readers.

mary rosenblum

Our task is not only to deliver a powerful story, it is also to make that story accessable to as many readers as we can...

mary rosenblum

which means giving some thought to the mechanics of the prose. A careless reader...who may love your work and be deeply affected by it...may well read right through that transition...

mary rosenblum

if you do not make it VERY clear, and then have to backtrack to figure out when and where we are.

mary rosenblum

You can certainly make a transition without the asterisk, but you need to sort of tap the reader on the shoulder so he/she doesn't bolt right past it.

mary rosenblum

Here's an example of the same thing with no asterisk transition:

mary rosenblum

Angelina waved goodbye to her grandmother as she climbed the steps of the bus. As it pulled away from the station, she craned her neck to keep the tiny, stooped figure in sight...

mary rosenblum

as long as possible. The arrival at school was just about as traumatic as she had expected and she barely had time to think about Granny, much less...

mary rosenblum

miss her as she scrambled to register for classes and purchase all her books. A week later, she was still adjusting to dorm life. She missed Granny now. A lot.

mary rosenblum

If you'll notice, I had to add in details of what transpired between that backward look and the missing granny a week later part.

mary rosenblum

Now these might not be important details at all in the story...buying books, registering for classes.

mary rosenblum

If you have a 3000 word limit and a big story to tell, words are precious to you.

mary rosenblum

Why use these unimportant details? Transitions with a * are like tucks in fabric.

mary rosenblum

Think of a pleated skirt. If you took all the stitches out, a pleated skirt that might be a mere 30 inches wide, is now about 90inches wide. Way too much fabric for a neat, smooth skirt.

mary rosenblum

But most of that fabric is folded and out of sight. That is what transitions do.

mary rosenblum

They tuck unnecessary stretches of time out of sight, so that the story can stay tight and fast paced.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

gail

Great analogy! :-)

mary rosenblum

Well, at least for the sewers amongst us! LOL

mary rosenblum

The WHOLE story here would involved Angelina arriving at school, meeting new people, evaluating her roommate and so forth.

mary rosenblum

But these actions and details don't matter to our plot, so the story itself would be on hold while we related all this extra stuff. And the tension would sag. So we tuck that sagging slow stuff out of sight with our *

mary rosenblum

Let's look at the same example, but we're going to skip ahead five years now.

mary rosenblum

This means we can't get away with a single sentence to ground the reader...unless Angelina had a VERY boring five years!

mary rosenblum

For our week lapse, we used: A week later, she was still adjusting to dorm life. She missed Granny now. A lot.

mary rosenblum

Okay, here is our five year leap.

mary rosenblum

Angelina sat on the sofa, smiling sadly as she replayed that half-forgotten memory in her head. It seemed like yesterday, that good-bye, not five years ago. If only she had known that Granny had only a few weeks to live, she would have put off college.

mary rosenblum

She might have been there when Granny died, instead of miles away, studying for a math class. She checked her watch. Ten minutes until class started.

mary rosenblum

She got up, gathering the papers she'd just graded. Granny would be so proud of her. She had always wanted Angelina to become a teacher.

mary rosenblum

Okay, we have now covered five years without spending too many words. Granny died. Angelina is either a teacher now, or perhaps doing her student teaching.

mary rosenblum

We are clearly in the school where she teaches since she only has ten minutes until class.

mary rosenblum

And we did this here within Angelina's POV. I did not insert my voice into the story and give the readers a narrative about her five years.

mary rosenblum

Instead, I let Angelina recall the past five years as she remembers Granny. This is 'showing' the transition to the reader.

mary rosenblum

Telling would be the author narrative version. Here goes:

mary rosenblum

Two weeks after the bus pulled out of the station, Angelina's grandmother passed away. Broken hearted, Angelina applied herself diligently to her classes, earning highest honors every term.

mary rosenblum

Five years later, she had accomplished her goal. She was a teacher.

mary rosenblum

This is the narrative version, rather than Angelina's POV. The only reason to think twice about doing it this way...

mary rosenblum

is that your voice as author intrudes and reminds the readers that they are not living your story, but rather, they are simply reading about it.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

jackie7777

find it most disturbing having to guess where I am in a nov

jackie7777

...novel when there has been no clear transition.

mary rosenblum

No kidding jackie. It is a HUGE jolt to the reader. About the third time I have to scramble around and figure out where I am, I'm ready to quit reading and usually do.

frazz

And all of what you wrote is after the *?

mary rosenblum

Right, frazz. I didn't repeat the part before the * just because I typed it in here and I can't cut and paste within ichat. Should have typed in on my word processor first. :-)

diana

I don't see the examples that you and others give as "telling rather than showing" are bad examples of writing.

mary rosenblum

They're not 'bad writing' diana. Telling has its uses certainly. Many effective stories are 'told'. Think of fairy tales for example..

mary rosenblum

BUT it depends on what you are trying to achieve.

mary rosenblum

If you can cause your readers to forget that they are sitting on the sofa and reading about people they don't know...

mary rosenblum

if you can suck them into the story so that they totally forget where they are and begin to live the story with your characters..

mary rosenblum

then those characters and that story become very real and have a profound impact on the reader.

mary rosenblum

The problem with 'telling' is that it reminds the reader with every sentence:

mary rosenblum

You are not living this story. I am telling you about it. It is not real.

mary rosenblum

And generally, the effect will not be as profound. Yes, the reader may certainly enjoy your story and your characters...

mary rosenblum

but the reader will be aware that they are NOT real, that this IS a story. Me, I like to transport my readers into my worlds...

mary rosenblum

and leave them with characters who are new friends and real people. ;-)

seabeewife

those are the best books and the ones i remember

mary rosenblum

Me, too, seebee, and that's why I do it. Works for readers, too. I get a lot of feedback from fans about characters, so I get to judge just how much I can do this. :-)

sailor

When the time gap is long, like 5 years, is it more common to see a chapter break than an *?

mary rosenblum

Yes, sailor. Generally, in novel form, you won't use a * transition. Instead you will simply begin a new chapter.

mary rosenblum

Sometimes, you might use a * transition within a chapter, rather than create two very short ones, but generally, you can do your scene breaks at the chapter end.

mary rosenblum

Most of the time, the * transition is used in short fiction instead of a chapter break.

gail

I'm curious about transitions between various players in a short story format. How can I effectively -- or should I even try -- write about two different groups of people who meet during the climax?

mary rosenblum

I take it you are talking about POV changes, gail.

mary rosenblum

This is VERY hard to pull off. I can think I"ve done it clearly and STILL get a lot of complaints from readers who missed it!

mary rosenblum

Yes, if you are shifting POV, DO use a * transition to make the shift clear and then be VERY VERY careful to clearly ground the reader not only in the new time/place, but also in the new POV.

mary rosenblum

I would use the new POV's name in the first sentence if you can.

mary rosenblum

For example, if we end the scene with Angelina looking back at Granny and then shift ahead one week to her sister Sally, we'd have to do that first 'grounding' sentence differently.

mary rosenblum

A week later, Sally sat on Angelina's bed, wondering if her sister would ever adjust to college life.

mary rosenblum

Now we are a week later, in college on Angelina's bed, and in Sally's POV.

dellexis

If I am understanding you correctly, to make the large leap, you connect the two memories of past and present from lets say a simple note granny wrote her years ago

mary rosenblum

That's one way to do it, dell. It is a good idea to use some connecting point like that. Again, you are trying to make it clear and easy for the reader to make the leap...

mary rosenblum

since you aren't there in person to explain! :-) I often use some sort of repeated image, thought, memory or what have you to connect the two time/place segments.

jackie7777

Can you transition successfully in a memoir?

mary rosenblum

Sure, Jackie. It's the same type of transition you make in first person. We've been using third so far.

mary rosenblum

In first person or memoir, you simply let the POV character summarize the lapsed time.

mary rosenblum

I spent the next five boring years at State U. Nothing much happened except that I wrote a bunch of worthless papers and experienced an amazing range of hangovers.

mary rosenblum

It's actually easier to cover large segments of time in first person because your POV character takes the responsibility for how much or little to tell. YOU the author get no blame. :-)

tkat_2

The time changes in the Kurt Vonnegut novels were so many that I got confused.

mary rosenblum

Tkat, I have heard Mr. Vonnegut say during interviews that he has no simpathy with readers and expects them to have to work to 'get' his stories. If they can't follow 'em, too bad.

mary rosenblum

This is not an attitude I share, I have to say.

anne shiever of ks

so this would also work excellent in writing a play, but what about a story telling poem style

mary rosenblum

I'm not quite sure, anne, what you mean by a story telling poem style...

mary rosenblum

poetic style is not my area of expertise, I have to admit. Prose yes. :-)

seabeewife

The best feedback I got from my instructor was that my

seabeewife

characters where rememberable and real

mary rosenblum

That is very good praise, seabee!

gail

I would guess that Mr. Vonnegut opportunities are severely limited with that attitude.

mary rosenblum

Well, Mr. Vonnegut is a LOT more famous than I am. :-) But he's welcome to his attitude. He's not the only one...mostly in the literary field, I've noticed.

jackie7777

How about transitioning in a biography?

mary rosenblum

Same thing, jackie. A clear, concise summary of any important events will do it.

mary rosenblum

After the Revolutionary war ended, George Washington spent the next seven years repairing and restoring the family estate...

mary rosenblum

That sort of thing.

anne shiever of ks

If you write a story in a rhyming style such as poetry would you simply address the time frame in the same manner

mary rosenblum

Ah, I see. Yes, anne, you would, but of course, with the consideration of word choice and poetic form. There you would probably use a more narrative form.

ladybug

Can you give an example of showing words vs. telling words?

mary rosenblum

Sure ladybug. In essence, you are telling when you filter the description though YOUR perception rather than through the character's perception.

mary rosenblum

For example, I can TELL you. Annie's alarm didn't go off and she got up in a hurry, afraid that she would be late.

mary rosenblum

You're not seeing the room, you're not realizing that you are late, you are simply hearing me tell you about Annie. Let's step into Annie's head here and do the same scene through HER perceptions.

mary rosenblum

Seven o'clock! Annie bolted upright, throwing off the covers. Late again! Mr. Bolters would fire her. She dashed for the bathroom...

mary rosenblum

See the difference? We are pretending to be sharing Annie's thoughts here.

mary rosenblum

Oh my gosh, we think. Seven o'clock! We are sharing her actions as she bolts upright and flings off the covers. I only use words that describe the action. Late again is Annie's thought.

mary rosenblum

Mr Bolters would fire her, is her thought, too.

anne shiever of ks

As the five years passed by she watched the little tree that sat outside her bedroom window grow into a beautiful green bush with little red flowers Would that be a description of words rather than telling words

mary rosenblum

That's a good transition, Anne. It's a narrative transition, but feels like the character's POV to me, so I wouldn't be jarred by an authorial intrustion. Nice example.

seabeewife

showing takes a lot of getting to know your character

mary rosenblum

It does indeed. :-) That's why characterization is critical and why showing and good characterization go hand in hand. Chicken and egg scenario there!

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

gail

Is the difference between "showing" and "telling" one of "voice." If we write with the POV's voice, then we are "showing." But, when we write with our own observances, we are "telling." Would these be accurate summaries?

mary rosenblum

Yes! That's exactly it, gail.

mary rosenblum

If you are trying to show the scene to the reader, ask yourself constantly: would my POV see this? Feel this? Think this?

mary rosenblum

This is one of the questions I received this week:

mary rosenblum

I would like you to answer those very questions about boring days not boring

mary rosenblum

She was asking about how to make a boring day not seem boring.

mary rosenblum

The trick there is to simply summarize it in a sentence and move on.

mary rosenblum

That's what transitions do best...we tuck the boring sections out of sight, to create a tighly paced, seamless whole.

mary rosenblum

Say we have a mystery. Our POV Adam goes to bed at the end of a scene.

mary rosenblum

The next dramatic peak will come after work, when he spies the mysterious man who is involved with the murder he's investigating.

mary rosenblum

He will chase the man and end up attacked in a warehouse.

mary rosenblum

Lots of action and drama...BUT...we have to get through the day at the office first.

mary rosenblum

So you transition through it.

mary rosenblum

The morning dragged. Adam kept seeing Roberta's pale, dead face and made mistake after mistake. Finally, his boss told him to go home early, make up the time later. It took Adam thirty seconds to clear his desk and hit the door.

mary rosenblum

We've summarized the boring morning. YOu want the reader to know that the morning dragged, but don't want the SCENE to drag.

gail

There are instances I can think of where the boredom of a character's day/weeks/years/etc. is outlined (in the beginning) to create some characterization. How can this be done effectively without losing the readers' interest?

mary rosenblum

Keep it short, gail.

mary rosenblum

A very few details of a boring and repetive life will give the reader a sense of the character's limited life..

mary rosenblum

without being a boring and repetitive scene that makes us reach for the next book in the bedside pile!

gail

I'm writing a story of an arduous journey, and in trying to establish that "feel" I am "with the characters" (almost) every step of the way. Is this doable/workable or just plain BORING?

mary rosenblum

That's always a tightrope, gail. Remember that a brief scene with vivid details makes a huge impression on the reader.

mary rosenblum

It is often better to do a vivid and intense scene of the daily slog and then summarize the rest of the journey...

mary rosenblum

rather than drag us through day after day of get up/eat/slog/sleep/get up/eat/slog/sleep...

mary rosenblum

I can't tell you what would work best for YOUR story without reading it, but too much boring travel is a frequent flaw in novice ms.

anne shiever of ks

So in theory we are writing more with the five senses than thw who what when where why how technique

mary rosenblum

Yes, Anne, if you want to immerse your reader in your world. You do your best to emulate reality, where we acquire information though our five senses...

mary rosenblum

rather than from a voiceover in our heads. :-) That's it exactly.

mary rosenblum

And that is why showing works so well. Because it emulates reality it makes the story feel real.

gail

The journey is the story.

gail

One day only.

mary rosenblum

Shouldn't be a problem. That is a short journey!

mary rosenblum

It's not what you are doing or for how long, Gail, it's simply a matter of 'are there enough dramatic peaks to hold our attention.

mary rosenblum

You can have a 500 page novel that is nothing but one long trek across the Sahara and it can hold readers riveted.

gail

In other words, the character's life may be monotonously boring, but our prose must NOT be. :-)

mary rosenblum

Yep. The CHARACTER can be bored. NOT the reader! :-)

frazz

How would you get to something that happened on the third...

frazz

or fourth day of that jouney?

mary rosenblum

You'd just transition through 'em, Frazz. You could use a * transition and begin section two with: On the fourth day, .... and continue.

mary rosenblum

Or you could just transition through without the * break.

mary rosenblum

Say you have a vivid scene that takes place on day one. You could continue like this: The next three days passed uneventfully.

mary rosenblum

Joshua's horse lost a shoe, but he mounted the spare and led the limping roan. By the fourth day, everybody had begun to relax.

mary rosenblum

We have skipped over day two and three. The only thing of note was the lost shoe and change in horses.

mary rosenblum

Now we are at day four.

anne shiever of ks

then we feel the waves upon our face, smell the salty ocean, see the beautiful blue green water etc...

mary rosenblum

Yep. Exactly, anne!

mary rosenblum

I find it much more fun to write like that, since I get to do and feel all those things, too. :-)

seabeewife

Look at all the wandering or traveling in Lord of the Rings

mary rosenblum

Yep, and at all the adventures that take place on those various journeys.

mary rosenblum

Transitions are something that few novice writers use often enough. I didn't, when I started out.

mary rosenblum

These days, the minute the story starts to bog down, I either bring in a subplot, if I'm working on a novel, or I transition to a new and more exciting scene.

mary rosenblum

They are very effective and one of the primary tools for adjusting your story's pace.

anne shiever of ks

In other words when you write any story, the reader should be able to feel they are there and the visual should be apparent, if not the reader will become lost and distracted

mary rosenblum

Yes, Anne, exactly. That sums it up. Unless you are intentionally writing a narrative piece.

mary rosenblum

By putting your readers into the head of the POV character, you let us step into the role and live that story.

gail

In your opinion, which works better. If the story happens on day 4 of a 6 day journey, and you want some back story, is it best to root the reader in the present, then flashback. Or, does it read better to start with the first days and transition our way to the day of the story's "climax"?

mary rosenblum

You could do it both ways effectively, gail. I personally perfer to work 'forward' whenever possible, rather than use flashback, so I'd probably begin with a strong scene at the start...

mary rosenblum

and then transition to my important day. But flashback can be effective, too.

anne shiever of ks

Then you also have to make sure it's not too wordy....give them some body but not overbearing

mary rosenblum

That's right, Anne. Keep control issues in check! ;-) One of the strengths of good prose is that...

mary rosenblum

the reader gets to play, too. We give our readers important clues and let them construct the rest of the world for themselves..

mary rosenblum

which means our readers SHARE our stories. They have a vested interest in them. Those are their worlds, too, unlike a movie where it is all created for you.

mary rosenblum

Prose is interactive.

anne shiever of ks

Just as two people always see things differently in report writing, etc...

mary rosenblum

And remember differently at family reunions!

mary rosenblum

The main character I see in my mind is not the main character you see when you read my story.

mary rosenblum

And that's fine, as long as they are similar.

mary rosenblum

Don't be afraid to just skip ahead if you can't make a stretch of time interesting.

mary rosenblum

If you're doing a biography, and your character didn't do much for a few years, just say so and move on.

mary rosenblum

Same for memoir or nonfiction narrative.

anne shiever of ks

where some may see tall dark and handsomely bold, another reader may see tall dark and somewhat shy

mary rosenblum

Well, shy and bold are pretty different characteristics. ;-) I think I'd want my readers to have a clear sense of my POV's character...either shy, or bold, or in between.

mary rosenblum

But dark, tall, and handsome covers a WIDE range of different interpretations. :-)

mary rosenblum

This was fun, and I'll certainly come back to the topic again.

mary rosenblum

I'll post the transcript in the usual place: Writing Craft: Forum Transcripts.

mary rosenblum

This Friday, we'll be doing a 'hands on' short story workshop.

mary rosenblum

We'll start with ideas from the audience and create an entire short story in our After Hours forum, including

mary rosenblum

setting, plot, and character. We'll create one that can be written in 1000 words...

mary rosenblum

since that's the length a lot of LR students are struggling with. :-)

seabeewife

Hero's or Heroines tend to be too perfect

mary rosenblum

Ha. Not mine, seabee. :-)

anne shiever of ks

How does one ask your professional opinion if they can not attend the forum???

mary rosenblum

You can always email questions to me if you can't make the forum.

mary rosenblum

And they can be off-topic, that's fine. Send them to maryrsn@comcast.net

mary rosenblum

Or you can reply to the Forum announcements I send out. They come right to me.

mary rosenblum

Thanks for coming, all!

mary rosenblum

Do drop into our open chat session...

mary rosenblum

right here tomorrow, same time, same place.

mary rosenblum

No topic, we just talk writing, weather, or what have you.

mary rosenblum

It's a great place to bring a stuck story, too.

mary rosenblum

We have fixed quite a few as a group effort!

mary rosenblum

See you all tomorrow, or whenever. Have a great week!

mary rosenblum

Thanks for coming!

 

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