|
mary rosenblum
|
Hello, all!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I hope you had a fine weekend.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I certainly did. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
A literary organization in
Seattle, the Richard Hugo House, put on an excellent...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
'Inquiry'...a day of panels
where writers and professionals in other fields come together for ...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
a synthesis on a particular
issue...this time it was the future and the role of story in our future.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
They did a marvelous job. I
was impressed.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer and today
we're talking about structure. If you're new here, remember that you need
to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red
question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in
order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can
also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I wanted to talk about
structure today a bit, because structure is something that comes later for
most writers. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Most of us started out just
writing a story...which is fine, but you end up either spending a lot of
time revising so that the story actually works...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
or you write a lot of stuff
that doesn't work and doesn't sell.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And I know writers that do
that....just keep throwing out story after story until they turn out one
that really works...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but it seems kind of like a
lot of really good ideas going to waste to me.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And while taking some time to
think about structure does NOT mean that you are doing a detailed
outline...I know that outlines do take the spontenaiety out of writing for
many people...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
a bit of thought toward your
structure can save you a lot of major revision.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
So what is the structure you
need to think about?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
The basic structure of story
is the dramatic arc.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Whether you're writing a slice
of life vignette for a literary mag or a complete story with conflict and
resolution...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
your story will generally rise
to a peak of dramatic tension, either a large one or a small one, and then
drop off to the end.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
While I do work out the plot
of a novel length work in more detail, mainly because I HATE writing first
drafts, and prefer to do mine as a chapter summary...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I don't do that with short
stories.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
But what I do when I sit down
to create a short story is to decide on my characters...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
decide whose story this is,
then decide what the conflict is, and from that, what the climax will be,
and how things will be resolved, if they are.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That's a grand total of four
points: character, conflict, climax, resolution.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Often that is ALL I decide on
and everything else gets maid up as I go along...I'm working on a 10,000
novella for an anthology right now that is a fun exploration because I
started with ONLY those points and they were pretty vague...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
so I've been evolving the
story as I go. BUT...because I had those four anchor points, I won't end up
having to go back and rewrite huge portions of the story because a change
in one of those points made everything else stop working.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I also got a commission while
in Seattle this weekend to create a YA story involving virtual reality to
be used as the anchor for a middle school summer program to teach science
and society.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
There, I had more specific goals,
so when I roughed out my structure points for my story, I spent more time
and creative energy and added more detail to my four points.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
There, I had an agenda, and I
didn't want to stray too far from what I intended.
|
|
neo
|
"four points of what?"
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Came in late, Neo?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
The four points I
mentioned...the basic structural points for fiction...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
the character, the conflict,
the climax, the resolution.
|
|
iron_will
|
First person, second person,
third...can you explain?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Sure, Iron.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That is voice....how you are
telling the story.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
In first person, the story is
told BY the main character...using "I" as the pronoun.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I woke up on Tuesday to
thunder and hail. Great way to begin a new life.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That's first person.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Third uses the character's
name...we are watching the character act and speak, the MC is not telling
the story.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Jared woke up on Tuesday to
thunder and hail. Great way to begin a new life, he thought as he crawled
out of bed.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Second person is rarely used:
You is the pronoun. Readers are pretty resistant to being told what to do!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You wake to thunder and hail
Tuesday morning. Great way to begin a new life you think as you crawl out
of bed.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Occasionally someone does a
good second person story, but it is TOUGH to pull off.
|
|
neo
|
What is a structure point? Isn't
structure the action, rising and falling?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Once again, neo, we're dealing
with a vocabulary that isn't standardized. 'Stucture' has no absolute
meaning...everyone who teaches writing will use it in a slightly different
manner with a slightly different meaning.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer and today
we're talking about structure. If you're new here, remember that you need
to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the
red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon
in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can
also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
|
|
pook
|
Mary, when you working on a low
word count, like assignment 6, and the story is longer than that, how do
you use the four points to determine what to cut?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
good question, pook...because
this is why it's in your best interests to think about the structure of
your story. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
As I've said many times
before, unless you have simply used too many words and the story needs
tightening...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
shortening a story is a matter
of changing the plot rather than simply removing words.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Every story has a natural
length and if your story is too long for a particular word count, change
the story itself.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If you simply remove words,
you end up with a superficial summary with little real power.
|
|
neo
|
Could you define
"structure" as the term is being used here, please?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Neo, I just did. Twice. Sigh.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
One more time. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
What I am talking about are
the basic points that create the structure of the story:
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
The main character. The
conflict. The climax point. The resolution.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
These are the main points that
give the dramatic arc of your story its shape.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And, to get back to pook's
question...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If your story is simply too
long, take a look at your conflict and climax....
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
is there a way to focus in on
that conflict, to convey it to the reader in a small scale?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
For example, if the conflict
is between a father and son...Dad has to finally realize his son is an
adult...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
that's a good conflict. Maybe
you have set the story on a weekend fishing trip and the climax comes as
they get into an accident...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and son really takes control
of the situation.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
But the story is WAY too long
with the set up, details of the weekend, etc.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You could use the same MC,
conflict, climax and resolution...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but think about setting up a
sitaution that allows for less length...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
perhaps your characters begin
on the third day of that trip in the boat, and you let the readers...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
see the problem in the opening
scene as they land a fish and dad belittles son...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and you get quickly to the
accident and the son's rescue.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You have a shorter story.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That's the value of
identifying those main points of your story...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You can adjust what comes in
between to make the story longer or shorter.
|
|
pook
|
I shortened it by removing some
characters and limiting content. Can I summarize in the story to move along
to climax and resolution?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Well, summarizing is one way
to get readers through a boring scene, but remember that summarizing
doesn't really engage readers...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
you're essentially telling 'em
what happened.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And that's why it's a good
idea to actually change the story in order to shorten it so that you don't
have to summarize...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but can really engage the
reader with fewer events.
|
|
writeaway
|
Building blocks.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
The 'structure points'? Perhaps
more 'lighthouses' on that sea of a story. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Think of them as places you
want to end up in your story...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and then you can decide just
what route to take in between to get there.
|
|
iron_will
|
suggestion: maybe just condense
and leave as is
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Again, iron, condensing is
similar to summarizing.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Think about what make a story
memorable for your reader.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
It's not the idea...it's the
reality of the story...the sense that we lived that moment and it really
happened.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And in order to feel that the
moment is real, you need to allow the reader to be involved in that scene,
to see the details, process events for themselves...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and that just doesn't happen
if you skim over events.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
It generally reads fine to YOU
the author, because you know all the background, so all you need is a quick
skim...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but that's not true for your
reader who is new to this place, time, and people.
|
|
speckledorf
|
In a novel...how do we deal with
dramatic arc and spread it over such a long distance?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Well, there, you're going to
have the same four basics: your main characaters, the central conflicts,
your climax and your resolution.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That's really all you need,
although you can begin to place some of your strong climax points in the
story as you work out your plot.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
But if exploration is most of
the fun of writing for you, figure out those four points and leave the rest
to happen as they will if you want.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Where a lot of novice writers
get bogged down in their first novel attempt or so is that they forge again
from page one...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
get themselves into the middle
of the novel...which is something akin to the Sahara, actually....and get
bogged down.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
They have run out of momentum,
can't think of anything cool and new to inspire them....and they just stop
working on the novel.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
In novel form especially,
knowing ahead of time what your climax will be can really save you.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You have that cool scene to
look forward to, and when you're bogged down in sand in your middle-Sahara,
most people find it easier...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
to figure out a way to get
THERE, to a specific scene, than to simply get to a vague and unrealized
'end'.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I love writing the climax
scene. That' s dessert for me. :-) So it's always waiting out there,
beckoning, when I'm in one of the many 'oh, this is just too much work'
moods! :-)
|
|
roe
|
I don't plot out my novel
beforehand chapter by chapter. Just the way I work. but I do jot down ideas
and I know where I'm going and how I want to resolve the situation. My
problem is how to put the chapters in later. I'm trying to put them in
where they make the most sense (new scene etc) any advice?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Relax, roe, and put them in
where YOU think they belong. Chaptering is frustratingly fluid...there are
no rules...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
although the younger the
reader the shorter the chapters do tend to be.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Generally a good chapter end
is one where you have hit a brief low, but a looming event tempts the
reader onward.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer and today
we're talking about structure. If you're new here, remember that you need
to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the
red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon
in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can
also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
|
|
speckledorf
|
So we give each chapter a bit of
the arc so to speak?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Ideally, yes. Pacing is a
subtle art, but if you build rising tension into each chapter, it tends to
engage the reader. Think of a long roller coaster...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
which is more fun? Lots of
smaller hills and downhill plunges leading to the REALLY big drop? Or one
long interminable hill and one drop?
|
|
writeaway
|
Is it possible to have more than
one dramatic arc in a novel or is it best to keep it to one?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
OH, goodness, write, lots of
dramatic arcs work very well. :-) Novels are complex.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You can have a main internal
plot, a main external plot, and a host of strong subplots.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
It simply depends on how large
your story is and how many strong characters you have.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Some novels are fairly simple,
with a main external and internal plot and only a couple of subplots...they
often feature a single POV character.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Others are very complex with
three or more main characters and a number of strong dramatic arcs
converging on the final climax.
|
|
roe
|
I'm working on a mystery which
involves a serial killer. He leaves a nursery rhyme with each victim. I'm
thinking of adding part of the nursery rhyme at the beginning of each
chapter that has a killing, Is this the right way or should I use a page in
between each chapter for this. Example: Georgie Porgie etc. Well, Georgie
old boy, you've kissed your last girl- now it's time to die. I was thinking
of doing it before the Chapter #
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You can do it any way that
pleases you, roe. Your editor will decide on how it will work best in the
book design.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You can arugue it out then.
:-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer and today
we're talking about structure. If you're new here, remember that you need
to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the
red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon
in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can
also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
The reason I suggest deciding
on those four points for yourself before you start a story is that it
allows you to do a lot of changing as you write...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and still end up with a solid
dramatic arc and coherent story.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
There is a big difference
between revising and rewriting.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If you can avoid rewriting
you'll save yourself a lot of time, plus it's hard to hide the seams in a
rewritten story. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
It's also a way to begin to
learn flexibility...something almost no novice writer possesses naturally.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
What I mean by that, is that
when we start out, we tend to envision our story and it instantly
solidifies to stone.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
We can polish, carve in a few
more details, but we can't CHANGE it...we can't see beyond THIS shape.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And believe me, the more
flexible you become as a writer, the more you can do with every idea that
occurs to you.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
At that point, your story is
plastic, no longer stone. You can twist it, stretchi it, ball it into a
lump and see which shape seems to work best.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Once you have your basic
points decided on, play with everything that comes in between. See what
makes you go 'wow'!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
To get a very different story,
change one of your points...see how that affects everything else.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
For example, because I had to
get this YA story written in a single week, I really had to hop to it on
the plotting end.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
So I decided on the climax and
resolution that would fit the teaching point I was asked to create...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
then I tried different
characters to see what they did to the story...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I tried different
conflicts...I tried different settings...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
until I found a combination
that worked in terms of length and interest and got me to the resolution
and teaching point I needed.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If I had started with my
original idea, I'd be done with the first draft right now, yes, but
realizing that this is not as strong a story as I wanted.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I'll be done with the first
draft this afternoon, instead, and it's a much stronger story.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Mostly, what I'm trying to do
here, is to get you all to experiment with story BEFORE you write it down.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Which is what the 'summary'
assignments in the LR course are intended to do. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And if you decide on the main
points that you want to include...your conflict, your climax, your
resolution, your character...or any combination of one or more of those...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
you have something of a
'safety line'. You have anchored this story, now you can go experiment and
you are still anchored in this story.
|
|
gskearney
|
It sounds kind of like traveling
to me. You need to know where you're going, and then you can pick the best
route and the right vehicle. --gk
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Good analogy, Gary. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
A road map of sorts...you know
you want to get to San Francisco...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but there are a number of
routes you can take.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Stories are really not fragile
crystals that must be handled with care lest they shatter...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
they are a cool let of Legos
that you can assemble in many different ways.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And often, the way you think
the story will work best isn't. But unless you play with other options, you
won't know what's best.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
AND...it's a great way to
learn to plot on demand, which is a reality when you're a pro.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You get asked to write quite
often...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I have two stories in progress
right now that were requested.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
It wasn't a matter of 'do I
have something to fit this market' it was a matter of 'write this for me
will you?"
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
It's invaluable when new
market opens up...say an anthology of circus stories, or dog stories...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and you don't have one.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer and today
we're talking about structure. If you're new here, remember that you need
to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red
question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in
order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can
also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Let's take our circus
example...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
start with a charcter...what
would be fun to work with?
|
|
speckledorf
|
The guy who cleans up after the
animals.
|
|
geezer
|
A clown
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
both good! I was thinking both
of those, actually...a roustabout or a clown!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
They're not the expected MC
like the lion tamer. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
This is somebody low on the
'pecking order' in the circus hierarchy...especially the roustabout.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
So let's give him a conflict.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Maybe he gets bullied by one
of the stars? The lion tamer?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
The trapeze star?
|
|
speckledorf
|
How about smuggling in something
through animal feed?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
YOu mean like drugs?
|
|
speckledorf
|
Not drugs...how about jewels?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Ha, that's good.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
So we have point one: Our
animal cleanup guy.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Conflict...he needs to deal
with the bully, the lion tamer (and of course we can toss in a love interest
here, too, maybe with the trapeze girl)...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
We need point three..the
climax. Our guy has the jewel smuggling to discover to fix the bully or he
can face off personally or both or other options?
|
|
geezer
|
The clown's a girl
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That works, and by putting her
in for our point one, the story is instantly different. We now have two
stories. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Our climax for both could be
an encounter with the bully where the MC wins...might be in the animal
tent...
|
|
speckledorf
|
Clown is girl pretending to be
man...adds a subplot with a nice twist/
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
again, a nice substitute on
point one, and again we have a new story.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
The climax is a face off with
the lion tamer and the resolution is that the lion tamer's smuggling is
exposed.
|
|
writeaway
|
she might be working under
cover... following the jewels
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Again, by changing that one
point, we have again altered the structure.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
oops...altered the story.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
In every case, we'll have the
same dramatic arc roughly...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
MC and bully clash (character
and conflict)...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
climax is a face off with
animal/ danger to MC (climax)...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
resolution is that smuggling
is revealed. (resolution)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You can change details of any
of these points and change the story to a greater or lesser degree.
|
|
geezer
|
The clown is an international
jewel thief adn while they are squaring off, she gets the jewels
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That would work, too.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Once you find your four
general points, you can start trying different ideas..
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
different characters,
different ways the climax could play out...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
different resolutins.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Our MC might run off with the
jewels...she is a competitor...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
or she is down on her luck and
this will fix her life.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Or she is a cop, or she turns
him in and in the process meets the love interest detective...
|
|
diane2
|
how much character development
should you do before writing?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I do a LOT Diane...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
if my character is not fully
formed for me when I start writing...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
then that character tends to
do what the plot demands and becomes a plot puppet rather than a realistic
character.
|
|
writermom
|
I have to change the age of two
of my mc's from 15 to 18 where do I begin to do this
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Do you mean they have to age,
write?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Or you just want older
characters from page one?
|
|
writermom
|
older from page one
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Well, start thinking about the
difference in a kid who is 18 from your 15 year old.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Interest in the opposite sex
is different, priveleges are different as are responsiblities...less
control by Mom and Dad, more self reliance...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
This will vary according to
the actual character you have created...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but think about the 15 year
olds you know and the 18 year olds and what they are like.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
It's not going to be as big a
difference as going from 10 to 18 but there will be a difference.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Well, this has been a fun
Oregon Hour. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I'd better go finish my YA
story. Do join us for our casual chat tomorrow...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
same time same place, only we
just get together to talk about whatever.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Next time you're starting a
story, try coming up with those four basic points before you begin...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and then try changing
them...see what you get.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I'll post the transcript in
the usual place: writing craft: forum transcripts.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Have a good day, all!
|
|
writeaway
|
Thanks, Mary. You helped me with
a problem I'm having with amy story.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Oh, good! Glad it helped,
write!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Have a good day, all!
|