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mary rosenblum
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Hello, all!
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mary rosenblum
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Welcome to our Tuesday Forum.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about research. If you're new here, remember that you need to
click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question
mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to
ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type
/ask in front of your question to reach me.
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mary rosenblum
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I hope you all had a great
weekend and see SOME signs of spring at least!
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mary rosenblum
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Me, I've been busy, between
the LR novel course, and other writing projects.
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mary rosenblum
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Just got an invitation to
contribute an original 10,000 word story to a forthcoming anthology.
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mary rosenblum
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If it opens up to submissions,
I'll let you all know.
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mary rosenblum
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That is one good reason to
publish your short fiction...
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mary rosenblum
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you get INVITED by editors of
anthologies to contribute.
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mary rosenblum
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And it's a good reason, too,
to practice writing to a theme...
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mary rosenblum
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since nearly every anthology
has a theme, so it's not a matter of sending 'em something you already
wrote...
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mary rosenblum
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unless you are lucky...
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mary rosenblum
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but a matter of writing
something ON that theme.
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mary rosenblum
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THat sort of flexibilityh is
something that few new writers come equipped with...me neither, back then!
:-)
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mary rosenblum
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But just think, your LR
assignments for those of you who are students...
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mary rosenblum
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are GREAT practice for this.
You are writing because you HAVE to turn something in...
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mary rosenblum
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not because a great story has
already popped into your mind.
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mary rosenblum
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So you are learning to come up
with something to write about on demand.
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mary rosenblum
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And that is a skill that will
make you money in your writing career.
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mary rosenblum
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Always say Yes!
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mary rosenblum
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Word gets around in the
publishing world, who can be counted on to deliver a good story when
asked...
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mary rosenblum
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and it can lead to things like
novelization work.
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mary rosenblum
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Many writers cannot do that.
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mary rosenblum
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Another good reason to be
taking the LR course, for you fiction writers out there!
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pook
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What's the theme, MAry? SCI FI?
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mary rosenblum
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YA fantasy, pook.
"Wizards'...although they'll take contemporary, SF, or classical
fantasy setting...
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mary rosenblum
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a wizard has to be part of the
story.
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mary rosenblum
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I'll post it if it opens
up...it' s not open yet...
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mary rosenblum
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they're still inviting pros on
board.
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mary rosenblum
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At eight cents a word, it's
good pay for fiction since they want 10,000 word stories.
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mary rosenblum
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And of course, this leads
smack into my topic for today...now isn't THAT a coincidence, heheh.
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mary rosenblum
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Research.
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mary rosenblum
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This is one of those rare
topics where I can talk to both you fiction and nonfiction writers at the
same time!
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mary rosenblum
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For example, in this case, I
decided to use synesthesia in my story.
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mary rosenblum
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And I know nothing about
it....so I'm off to do a lot of research.
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mary rosenblum
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Every plot has been done a
thousand times...
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mary rosenblum
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so where the fiction and
nonfiction markets meet is in...interesting information.
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mary rosenblum
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If your plot has been
done...and it has...you have to depend on your characters and SETTING to
make your story..
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mary rosenblum
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stand out from the six other
versions of your plot in the slush pile...and they are there.
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mary rosenblum
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And if you set your story or
novel in the real world, you need to get the details RIGHT...
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mary rosenblum
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or you shatter your readers'
belief in your story if they find the flaws.
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geezer
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What's synesthesia?
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mary rosenblum
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Oh, an interesting condition,
geezer, where the senses are connected oddly...you 'smell' words perhaps,
or 'see' sounds.
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christopher dale
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In my novel, the mission to Iraq
during the Gulf War took me over a MONTH looking at old maps,
non-classified mmilitary maps of the regions and lots of time to where I
could see the area in my sleep.
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christopher dale
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But in the end, I knew the names
of the towns, the airfiled I use and many other areas in Kuaitt and Iraq
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christopher dale
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To me, it paid off and was well
worth the effort. All for 1 chapter. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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And for a thriller set in the
real world, or a mystery, or a mainstream story, you need that
verisimiltude.
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mary rosenblum
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And that research is worth it
because it provides continuity throughout your scenes.
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mary rosenblum
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And even if readers don't
consciously pick out inconsistencies, they notice them subconsciously and
the story simply feels 'superficial' and false.
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mary rosenblum
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And if you flat out get
something wrong that the reader knows...then you do blow that belief.
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mary rosenblum
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And for both fiction and
nonfiction, you really need to compile way more information than you can
use.
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mary rosenblum
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In nonfiction you will be
writing to a tight slant, so only SOME of that information will interest
your readers...
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mary rosenblum
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and you can mine several
articles from that deep pool.
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mary rosenblum
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In fiction, you are creating
the iceberg so that the tip can 'float' into your story.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about research. If you're new here, remember that you need to
click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question
mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to
ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type
/ask in front of your question to reach me.
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mary rosenblum
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You won't need nearly all that
information in yoru story...
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mary rosenblum
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but because YOU know it,
again, you'll be able to create consistency from scene to scene.
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mary rosenblum
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Of course the hard part, in
both fiction AND nonfiction...
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mary rosenblum
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tends to be the task of
leaving stuff out!
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mary rosenblum
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It's so HARD not to use all
that wonderful, interesting, cool information!
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mary rosenblum
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And in nonfiction, alas, that
is what costs a lot of new writers sales...
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mary rosenblum
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trying to include too much in
one article.
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mary rosenblum
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In fiction, you can indeed
make your setting 'top heavy'.
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mary rosenblum
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And it really slows down the
pace of the story.
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pook
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can't the editor strike it out?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, pook, no. Because it's
not the editor's job to MAKE your story good. That is your job. It is the
editor's job to POLISH your story.
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mary rosenblum
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They will take out a few
details perhaps, but if your story is ponderous because you have so much
exposition in it that the plot is lost to the reader...
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mary rosenblum
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the changes needed go beyond
polishing.
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butch
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Do you practice generalizing of
info before using it in Fic?
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mary rosenblum
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I'm not sure exactly what you
mean, butch? Can you elaborate?
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mary rosenblum
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Try using /ask if your send
bar limits your posts.
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owlybear
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This morning I wrote an article
about chocolate for my column for this week. I reasearched a bit and found
out the Mayas used the cacao bean pods for money, so in their case 'Money
did grow on trees'... lol
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mary rosenblum
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And that would be a great hook
line, owly!
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pjwriter2
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What do you mean by it being the
editor's job to polish the story?
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mary rosenblum
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The editor's job is to take
what you wrote and make the prose work better. They are experts in prose,
and while they will find logic errors...
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mary rosenblum
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where your blue pickup in
chapter one becomes a yellow SUV in chapter six...
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mary rosenblum
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it is not their job to rewrite
your story.
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jackie7777
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We make the shoe and the editor
makes the shoe shine.
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mary rosenblum
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Ooh, that's a very nice
analogy, jackie!!!
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gail
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In another writing course (which
shall remain nameless, and which I never completed) I was told that the
mountain of research on a NF topic could be used in separate pieces,
depending on the angles. So, the great details and information we gleen is
never wasted, per se. Do you agree with that?
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mary rosenblum
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Of course. How ELSE do you
think you make a living in this field! LOL.
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, Gail, and you should PLAN
on donig that...
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mary rosenblum
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in order to maximize your
return on those information hours.
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mary rosenblum
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I try to write at least a
couple of stories using information I've researched...
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mary rosenblum
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and usually write more. I keep
my research notes forever.
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mary rosenblum
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For example, I have a student
who interviewed a sculptor in Canada who is working on a very interesting
show...
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mary rosenblum
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and she has now sold THREE
articles to different magazines using that information with a fourth query
out...
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mary rosenblum
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that will probably sell, too.
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mary rosenblum
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One slant was to pro
artists...technique...
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mary rosenblum
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one was to a 'womens' issues'
slant...
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mary rosenblum
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one was to an 'art lovers'
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mary rosenblum
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slant...
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mary rosenblum
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and I forget what the slant is
of the fourth...I think Canadian regional readers, but I can't remember.
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gail
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I presume the same could be said
for fiction -- the research could be applied to other similar stories, or
to a series of stories. Correct?
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mary rosenblum
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Yep. And what I have found as
a fiction writer...
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mary rosenblum
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is that once you have researched
that 'universe' whether it is real or created...
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mary rosenblum
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IT will suggest at least one
story to you,
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mary rosenblum
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since every batch of
information you dig up will suggeest all kinds of specific conflicts.
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butch
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Writing with the info so it
becomes your own words.
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mary rosenblum
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Ah, thanks, Butch.
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mary rosenblum
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Of course.
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mary rosenblum
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Do realize that editors in the
nonfic world will not pay for 'internet research'.
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mary rosenblum
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IF the readers can do it for
themselves, why pay YOU to do it?
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mary rosenblum
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That is why a live interview
or personal experience is a very good idea!
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mary rosenblum
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In fiction, of course you'll
use the details in the context of your story, filtered through the Point of
View of your main character.
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margieh
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Mary, in fiction, using the
details and experiences you've gleaned from research will make your story
richer? In NF that's true but you can also use the body of your research to
draw fresh new conclusions and the details to paint the story?
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margieh
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...the "story" of the
article, I mean.
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mary rosenblum
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Absolutely, margieh.
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mary rosenblum
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Let's take a story set in a
hospital.
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mary rosenblum
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MC is a doctor. Plot is that
he uncovers a murder made to look like an accidental death. Nice mystery.
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mary rosenblum
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Been done a thousand times,
that plot.
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mary rosenblum
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Okay, we have two stories on
the editor's desk.
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mary rosenblum
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Story A focuses on the plot.
Doctor is pretty much like you and I, but wears green scrubs...
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mary rosenblum
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doesn't do much different from
what we do, talks like us, hospital scenes are the expected...
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mary rosenblum
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sterile corridors, beds, white
sheets, etc.
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mary rosenblum
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Story two: Doctor uses 'doc
lingo' that we can infer meaning of from context...
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mary rosenblum
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we see specific equipment,
catch inside glimpses...
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mary rosenblum
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of the docs relaxing at lunch,
the scrub room before surgery...
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mary rosenblum
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etc.
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mary rosenblum
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Which one sells, if the plots
are equally good?
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mary rosenblum
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See what I mean?
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jackie7777
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Are we talking about research
for articles or novels?
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mary rosenblum
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Both, jackie.
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mary rosenblum
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They're very much the same,
research wise and use wise.
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glider
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How do you store your research
for future retrieval?
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mary rosenblum
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That depends on how you work,
glider.
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mary rosenblum
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I do a lot of research on the
internet now, and I tend to store links in various folders labeled with
general topics.
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...links do go away, so if
you find a pertinent website, do copy those important pages to your hard
drive so they don't vanish.
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mary rosenblum
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I have a file cabinet with
various folders in it where I store information that may be useful...
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mary rosenblum
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and a 'dump box' of
information that is cool, but I have no idea what I'll ever do with it.
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butch
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Internet researh. How do you
verify its legitimacy?
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mary rosenblum
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Generally, the research that I
use has cross-references to other research, butch.
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mary rosenblum
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If you cannot cross reference
to supporting information, distrust it...might be right, might be wrong.
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arfelin
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Do you think it's important to
do extensive research on character's careers if their work has little to do
with the plot?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, not EXTENSIVE, arfelin..
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mary rosenblum
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but I can tell you right now,
having a best friend who is an ER doc...
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mary rosenblum
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that I see a lot of novice ms
where the doctor does not talk like a doctor.
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mary rosenblum
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Readers and editors know when
a 'specialist' talks just like you and I.
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mary rosenblum
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By giving that 'professional'
the right 'jargon' you allow the reader to believe this person really IS a
doctor, lawyer, jocky, drill press operator, or what have you.
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mary rosenblum
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Remember...you are CREATING
reality.
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mary rosenblum
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That is what makes a story
really strong.
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mary rosenblum
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And you create reality of
course with smoke and mirrors...
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mary rosenblum
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little details that make the
reader think...oh, this woman really IS a doctor.
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gail
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Re: Interviews for research
purposes. I have noticed that certain "experts" tend to have
formulaic answers to certain questions. So, whether we read about the topic
in one mag. or another, the (same) expert will give very similar responses.
This tells me that there should be more research done into prior interviews
to come up with "fresh" questions that will elicit
"fresh" responses. Or, am I picking nits? :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Not at all, Gail!
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mary rosenblum
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The art of the interview is
really an art.
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mary rosenblum
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There is the 'canned'
interview where the interviewer asks specific questions by mail, email,
fax, or phone...
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mary rosenblum
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and the interviewee merely
answers them.
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mary rosenblum
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Then you have the live
interview...which can be more of the same...
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mary rosenblum
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or you can have a talented
interviewer where he/she pays attention to small...
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mary rosenblum
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clues in the interviewee's
responses and follows up on promising tangents...
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mary rosenblum
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Those can provide more
diverse, less standard, and more interesting interviews.
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mary rosenblum
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Listen to Terry Gross, the NPR
interviewer, if you want a good example of strong technique.
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mary rosenblum
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You can hear her abandon her
researched questions at times to follow a new trail. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about research. If you're new here, remember that you need to
click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question
mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to
ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type
/ask in front of your question to reach me.
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margieh
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Are you saying that if I have a
mountain of research and I want to use all of it (or as much as possible) I
should think in terms of how many different and separate ms I can write as
an alternative to trying to fit all of it into one? Writing NF how do you
know which is the better path?
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mary rosenblum
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Margieh, 'fitting it all into
one' even in historical research, as you added, is a sure path to rejection
from most magazine markets.
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mary rosenblum
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Even in a book length project
you probably won't be able to use all your reseach.
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mary rosenblum
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Think of making a bead
necklace.
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mary rosenblum
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You start out with a pile of
colors and textures and shapes...
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mary rosenblum
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and you decide that you really
like shades of turquoise with the occasional pearl and silver bead.
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mary rosenblum
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Well, you're left with all the
red, yellow, green, etc...beads in the pile.
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mary rosenblum
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So you do a new necklace and
this one is red and yellow..
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mary rosenblum
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see what I mean?
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mary rosenblum
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If you used ALL the beads,
maybe a few people would like that 'crazy quilt' mix...
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mary rosenblum
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and buy it...
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mary rosenblum
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but now you've made ten
different necklaces that appeal to nine people who would NOT have bought
the mix.
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jr souza jr
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I would imagine that many if not
all editors will utilize some sort of fact checking, in many cases they may
(will they?) follow up by contacting sources. This makes me wonder if a
reluctant (read hostile) source that added the main selling point to the
article was contacted wouldn't ther be a danger to using this info. If it
was great stuff and vital how could you safe guard against this porblem
(maybe just letting the editor know?)
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mary rosenblum
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Jr, you're probably not going
to USE a hostile source.
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mary rosenblum
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Even investigative reporters
need a certain amount of cooperation from their sources. You cannot quote
someone without permission.
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mary rosenblum
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And yes, with all the recent
media embarassment over 'made up' stories and wrong facts...
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mary rosenblum
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your editor may or may not
want to check your sources. Probably NOT unless your story is
controversial, or it...
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mary rosenblum
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will get a lot of high profile
attention.
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pjwriter2
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I have to give my alien a langue
of her own where would I
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pjwriter2
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start to research for that
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mary rosenblum
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Start with a language that is
similar to the one you want to use.
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mary rosenblum
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Tolkien's Elvish began with
Norwegian, according to my Tolkien scholar friend...
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mary rosenblum
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and although it is NOT
Norwegian, it bears a rhythmic and structural similarity that gives it the
consistency...
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mary rosenblum
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of a real language.
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mary rosenblum
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Every basic language group
repeats certain sounds and uses a specific rhythm of accent and non accent.
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mary rosenblum
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Try reading some basic books
on linguistics or language roots, pj.
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lil-duv
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so research involving a live
interview is best, because you can capture the tone of voice, facial
expression and body language, as well as having the ability to quote?
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mary rosenblum
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Sure, if you can do it. But I
get interviewed by people on the other end of the country!
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mary rosenblum
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Pretty spendy for them to do
it in person, LOL.
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mary rosenblum
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But remember...if you do it by
phone or even email...
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mary rosenblum
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you can
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mary rosenblum
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follow up on interesting
responses from your subject.
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mary rosenblum
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Don't limit yourself to a list
of questions you wrote out ahead of time...use that as a start.
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mary rosenblum
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I always have a list of
questions ready for my LR guests...I rarely use more than a few before I
start following interesting threads.
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gail
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Slightly Off Topic (regarding my
Neolithic story): You mentioned earlier about getting the characters'
language/voices right. I totally agree. However, in my particular story,
I've opted for "today's" language, without the use of
contractions, and without "elaborate" words or phrasings because
A) I needed the dialogue to further the plot, and B) no one knows how they
actually spoke. But, will this "modern tongue" hurt the
believability of my tale? (P.S. I don't use slang or colloquialisms, etc.)
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gail
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P.P.S.: I have sprinkled the
story with some terms I created that should be understandable in context.
:-)
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mary rosenblum
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Not at all, gail, and thanks
for giving me that example...
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mary rosenblum
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because it leads into
something VERY important..
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mary rosenblum
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which is FAKING reality.
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mary rosenblum
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And of course, that's what
you're mostly going to do in FICTION.
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mary rosenblum
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Don't FAKE nonfiction facts!!!
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mary rosenblum
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But in FICTION, you can
sprinkle your story with a few realities, and make the facts you simply
cannot verify (because your characters are Neanderthals...
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mary rosenblum
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and they're not around to
ask!) seem plausible.
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mary rosenblum
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One GREAT way to simulate a
foreign tongue...
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mary rosenblum
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is to change the structure of
your English.
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mary rosenblum
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You can't go there, dummy.
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mary rosenblum
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That's basic modern
conversational English.
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mary rosenblum
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Here's another language:
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mary rosenblum
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Go there, thou can not,
child-mind.
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mary rosenblum
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This is my alien tongue...
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mary rosenblum
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and they not only have a
different word order from English...verb first then pronoun...
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mary rosenblum
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they don't believe in
stupidity. Your mind is either young or at various stages of maturity...
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mary rosenblum
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When I need to use a foreign
language...
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mary rosenblum
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and currently it's...are you
ready for this? Malay!
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mary rosenblum
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I'm not about to spend three
years learning to speak Malay so that I can write a couple of stories and
maybe a novel!
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...I need to make my
character 'speak' Malay when she is with other Malay speakers.
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mary rosenblum
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So I got a basic language
course with tapes of conversations.
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mary rosenblum
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Which gives me the sentence
structure, the tonal sound and rhythms of the speech...
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mary rosenblum
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as well as a few
colloquialisms and some words I can use whose meaning can be revealed by
contex.
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sailor
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The model release form I use
when I interview/photograph people states that I can use their photo and
biographical material. If I did not use photos, do I still need a release
for their biographical material?
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mary rosenblum
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Not as long as you don't
slander them, sailor, and you don't quote them without permission.
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mary rosenblum
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I would not use their real
names, of course...
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mary rosenblum
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But that's a matter of ethics.
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mary rosenblum
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I can mention my neighbor by
name in an article on the Oregon Beach Cleanup weekend...
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mary rosenblum
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but I wouldn't do so without
asking her first.
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mary rosenblum
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I'd just give her a fake name.
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mary rosenblum
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(And, to be honest, I don't
ever use real names unless I need to interview purposes...
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mary rosenblum
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I feel strongly about peoples'
privacy),
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sailor
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But would you get her pemission
in writing?
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mary rosenblum
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No, sailor. I don't need it,
if I merely describe her and name her...as long as I don't describe her...
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mary rosenblum
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say, doing something that is
going to earn her public disapproval or is illegal...
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mary rosenblum
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that would be slander and yes,
she COULD sue me for that.
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margieh
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c. permission to use
quotes...can you use interviews others have done with a subject as primary
sources? Can you use quotes from those, crediting the source?
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mary rosenblum
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If you are quoting another's
work, or their quoted interviews, you must get permission of the author,
ALWAYS.
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geezer
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Can you use the gist of what a
person said from a source without actually quoting him and not have to get
permission?
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mary rosenblum
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Only if you do not identify
that person, geezer.
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mary rosenblum
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If you say, "Mrs. Jones
told me that her daughter was dealing drugs', you'd darn well better have
her permission and I'd get permission for THAT in writing!
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sailor
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My article is about 4 teenage
girls who crewed on a replica of a pirate ship. It was a two month, 3,000
voyage. I plan to use their real names.
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mary rosenblum
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Sailor, using real names is
really an ethical question and various people feel differently about it.
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mary rosenblum
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I have had some very
uncomfortable encounters with people who not only knew who I was, but had
decided they knew a lot about me from what I wrote...mostly erroneous
conclusions.
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mary rosenblum
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It made me VERY aware of just
how LARGE the audience is, and how little control you have on who reads
what you write...OR...what is written about you.
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mary rosenblum
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I do not think I would use
real names in that case.
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mary rosenblum
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Why bring thse young women to
the attention of every person who picks up a copy of that magazine?
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mary rosenblum
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They are not all subscribers.
Those magazines go into the recycle bin, the trash...
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mary rosenblum
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and those people may not all
be nice people.
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mary rosenblum
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It is a BIG world out there,
and the first time you realize what it means to be so visible, you don't
forget!
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mary rosenblum
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There's nothing legally WRONG
with using their names...
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mary rosenblum
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there are just weird people
out there.
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gail
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Some people enjoy the
notoriety...
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mary rosenblum
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Yeap. They're gonna have to
get it from someone else beside me.
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geezer
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Must you get permissin if you ID
the person's organization but not the actual person?
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mary rosenblum
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No, but be very aware that
organizations even MORE than individuals, are sensitive about their public
reputations.
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mary rosenblum
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I interviewed people from DEQ
for a mystery a few years ago.
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mary rosenblum
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They REALLY wanted to know how
I was going to represent the organization before they'd even talk to me.
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mary rosenblum
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(Department of Environmental
Quality)
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dbamarsha
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If you are using personal
experiencefor your article, will it be credible to use Internet research
and provide a sidebar wtih links for that information?
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mary rosenblum
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Sure.
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geezer
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I'll get more specific "A
former WHO enployee in Africa thinks..."
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mary rosenblum
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Well, as long as you don't say
anything bad about WHO you're fine, geeze.
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mary rosenblum
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But if you quote him as
telling you about how corrupt the WHO is...
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mary rosenblum
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you may find letter from a
lawyer in your mail!
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mary rosenblum
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And as the recent court cases
have demonstrated...you can not legally refuse to divulge your sources and
stay out of jail!
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mary rosenblum
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A couple of reporters may well
see some jail time because they wouldn't divulge their sources.
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mary rosenblum
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THat first amendment has some
legal qualifications...right or wrong.
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geezer
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I guess my teacher can help me
stay out of jail?
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mary rosenblum
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hey, you libel someone, and
you're on your own, geeze!
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mary rosenblum
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Don't worry, I point such
things out in my students' work and I'm sure all the other LR instructors
do, too. LOL
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mary rosenblum
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As far as research goes...wrenching
the topic back on course again...
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mary rosenblum
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the one thing to beware of...
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mary rosenblum
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is that research can become
the most delightful case of writers block you've ever had.
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mary rosenblum
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If you're researching, you're
writing, right?
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mary rosenblum
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Never mind that not one word
has hit the page in three years...
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mary rosenblum
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I've known this to happen.
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mary rosenblum
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When you have six binders full
of notes and a whole file drawer full of research material...
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mary rosenblum
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and not one page
written...maybe think about what is REALLY going on?
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mary rosenblum
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Remember this is NOT a PhD
thesis...it's a story, or a 1500 word article!
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mary rosenblum
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In fiction particularly, you
need enough details..
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mary rosenblum
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to make your story feel real
to a reader who probably knows less about the subject than you do.
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mary rosenblum
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A few details can go a long
way to making the reader think your main character is an expert.
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mary rosenblum
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and in the nonfiction world,
you're pool of information can fuel a variety of slants and articles.
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speckledorf
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What about researching something
fictional such asl elves? Everyone seems to have their own ideas about
them. How do you deal with that? Make up your own rules?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, until you can interview
an elf I
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mary rosenblum
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d say you're free to make up
your own rules.
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mary rosenblum
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Every time someone tells me,
'But vampires can't do that..'...
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mary rosenblum
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my answer is the same. When a
vampire TELLS me that he can't do that, I'll change it.
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mary rosenblum
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BUT..
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mary rosenblum
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dont' do what 80 percent of
all novice fantasy writers do...
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mary rosenblum
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and use Tolkiens' elves!
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mary rosenblum
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For heaven's sake make up your
OWN elven universe! Editors will LOVE you.
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mary rosenblum
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They're awash in stories set
in generic Tolkein universes.
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mary rosenblum
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And that requires just as much
research as making them ancient Norwegians...only you make up this research
rather than spending time in the library!
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mary rosenblum
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Well, this has been a fun
Oregon hour, all!
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mary rosenblum
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See you tomorrow, for our
regular open chat!
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mary rosenblum
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Have a good week!
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mary rosenblum
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I'll post the transcript in
the usual place..
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mary rosenblum
|
writing craft: forum
transcript.
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mary rosenblum
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Have a good week, all!
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