Forum Transcripts

Questions About Story 5/27/05

Event start time:

Fri May 27 19:05:21 2005

Event end time:

Fri May 27 20:41:00 2005



Legend:
Questions from the Audience are presented in red.
Answers by the Speaker are in black.
The Moderator's comments are in blue.

mary rosenblum

Hello all, I hope you've had a great week, and that you're cooler than we are!

mary rosenblum

Going from winter rain to summer sizzle in one day is a BIT much!

mary rosenblum

This is our After Hours Forum, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and we're having an Open Question Night. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..

owlybear

Mary it's 40 F and drizzling herre...I'm cooler than you ar... :-)

mary rosenblum

About what we had two days ago, sigh. Well, I think I'd rather be warm so I'll stop whining now.

chekat

Did you have any formal training before you became published?

mary rosenblum

Well, not in writing chekat.

mary rosenblum

I got a BS in biology and worked in endocrine research for a few years before I started writing seriously.

mary rosenblum

I just started writing and sending stuff out...started in nonfiction and switched over to fiction.

chekat

How did you know writing was your forte?

mary rosenblum

Well, chekat, I always loved reading and storytelling and I was always good at writing in school...

mary rosenblum

even if I DID get in trouble for not writing exactly what I was supposed to write for assignments, LOL.

mary rosenblum

And when I started writing articles and then stories and realized that real people actually DID this...

mary rosenblum

there was no turning back.

mary rosenblum

I often think of it as leaping off a cliff...I didn't bother to check to make sure I was wearing a parchute until I was already on the way down! :-)

wingedwarrior24

What made you want to write?

mary rosenblum

Other writers. :-) I was always rewriting their endings in my head, changing the characters (there were NEVER any cool girl characters in the books I read as a kid)...

mary rosenblum

and generally making up stories when I was bored...like in school. (Got into LOTS of trouble with teachers over THAT let me tell you).

penandink

Who first noticed your writing talent?

mary rosenblum

Nobody, penandink.

mary rosenblum

I got As on my writing assignments, but I was gently discouraged from looking at writing as a career by more than one teacher...

mary rosenblum

who told me that writers were 'special' and I should do something else with my life. So much for THEIR foresight.

mary rosenblum

Actually, I remember when I first heard the word 'talented' used with my name...was in some review of my work or other in a magazine...

mary rosenblum

and I thought 'wait a minute, that's not true'.

mary rosenblum

Talent seemed like some golden letter on your forehead and all I had on my forehead was sweat!

mary rosenblum

That review actually shocked me.

chekat

So writing is something that has to be in your blood to be a good writer.

mary rosenblum

Oh, not at all, chekat.

mary rosenblum

Beware of that 'you have to be born with it' stuff.

mary rosenblum

That's not true at all. What was I born with? Nothing particular that I know of...I just love to write and so I do it.

chekat

What makes a good writer than?

mary rosenblum

Caring about what you do.

mary rosenblum

As a day job, writing isn't a good choice. You get no benefits..no health insurance, 401K, and the money is mediocre in nonfiction and lousy in fiction.

mary rosenblum

You DO get to work at home but you work HARD at home and you don't have the security...

mary rosenblum

of knowing how much money will come in next week or next month.

mary rosenblum

People who write do it because we can't NOT write. Believe me I have tried to quit many times!

mary rosenblum

Can't do it.

mary rosenblum

Serious addiction.

chekat

But doesn't talent play into it?

mary rosenblum

Well, sure it does, chekat. If you are a natural at story telling you won't have to work as hard at writing fiction as someone who doesn't have that storytelling ability...

mary rosenblum

but how do you KNOW? Very few early stories sell. Does that mean you lack talent? Nah. Means you lack craft.

mary rosenblum

Stories come easier for me than for some other writers I know, and I know writers who find stories more easily than I do.

wingedwarrior24

How do you know if you have storytelling ability?

mary rosenblum

Your readers will tell you.

mary rosenblum

The priceless moments are when someone comes up to you at a signing, a conference, at the post office, and says, 'you know that story you wrote? It really made a difference in my life'.

mary rosenblum

Then you realize that the lean times, the rejections, the hard hard hard work...are worth it.

mary rosenblum

At least for me, that is. That IS why I do it. :-) And it's why most of the pro writers I know do it.

mary rosenblum

And there is no stamp, no test, no letter of certification, winged.

mary rosenblum

You operate on faith...writing, getting rejected, writing some more, getting rejected...

mary rosenblum

because YOU believe that your stories are good.

mary rosenblum

And then they start selling...a trickle at first, then more often...

mary rosenblum

and that first person comes up with an adoring look on their face and says 'wow, I never thought I'd really get to meet you'...and you realize...'hey, I'm THERE.'

chekat

Writing is definitely an experience in faith.

mary rosenblum

Oh it certainly is, chekat.

mary rosenblum

This is our After Hours Forum, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and we're having an Open Question Night. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..

chekat

I am bad about writing, I write all the time.

mary rosenblum

That's hardly BAD, chekat! Laughing!

t green

So how DO you become a great story-teller?

mary rosenblum

Well, there is no standard carved in stone, but my gut feeling is that the story has to MATTER to you.

mary rosenblum

It's more than just something to sell for a few bucks, something to get published in a magazine...

mary rosenblum

the story itself matters.

mary rosenblum

We writers talk about this sort of thing all the time, and this is a pretty general feeling.

wingedwarrior24

My first rejection was at Talebones and I'm making it my lifelong goal to sell one there.

mary rosenblum

And you will, if you don't quit trying, winged. :-)

mary rosenblum

Actually, my first rejection was from Stan Schmidt at Analog Magazine and he YELLED at me in a scribbled note. (Good story, LOUSY ending!).

mary rosenblum

I vowed at the time I'd sell him one. :-) Then I started selling elsewhere and I never did send him another story. Finally sent him one this year. It should be out, soon. So I did it...finally fulfilled that vow. :-)

chekat

I've been told that I am very detailed in telling things..

chekat

does that help in writing?..being detailed

mary rosenblum

Yes, if it works in the story, chekat. Detail helps bring the story to life, but too much of anything or too much at the wrong place in the story isn't good.

mary rosenblum

There is no ONE thing that makes your story work or not...

mary rosenblum

that's why you write and write and write....slowly you begin to bring all those different aspects of 'story' together...

mary rosenblum

character, setting, theme, action, etc...and that whole becomes greater than the sum of its parts. But it takes LOTS of writing to learn to do that. a

wingedwarrior24

I write the same two stories over and over again for practice. Do you have any exercises that would help with writing and if so can you give us a few?

mary rosenblum

Winged, I suggest that you write wildly different things every time. Do a romance, a noir fantasy, a hard SF piece, a horror story...

mary rosenblum

flex your muse's fingers, increase your reach, try new things and fail spectacularly. Succeed spectacularly.

chekat

Rejection seems to be the theme here...looks for lots of it.

mary rosenblum

Well, yeah. And I still get rejected. :-) Everyone does. Means 'no thanks'.

wolf122

Loaded question--how much money does a 'typical' short story sell for?

mary rosenblum

Well, wolf, generally the pay rate goes from zero to about 10 cents per word at the top of the pay scale.

mary rosenblum

You're not going to pay the mortgage with short fiction, but you can...

mary rosenblum

continue to earn money from your short stories.

mary rosenblum

You can resell rights to anthologies over and over again.

diane2

Could you explain 'transitioning' from Act 1 to Act 2 etc,

mary rosenblum

Well, a transition between scenes diane is just a bridge to take the reader from say, the living room in the manor house, out to the carriage house after dinner...

mary rosenblum

and it can be as simple as a skipped line to indicate a change in time and place...

mary rosenblum

or it can be a transition where you simply summarize the time that has passed without a lot of detail.

mary rosenblum

Say we're in that living room with our main character Roxanne.

mary rosenblum

After Chandry left, they all went in to dinner. Roxanne had no appetite and only picked at her roast beef, earning her a concerned look from Nana. While the men adjourned to the...

mary rosenblum

library for Port, Roxane snatched her cloak from the closet and sneaked out through the service entry, heading straight for the stable.

mary rosenblum

Those few sentences would have required pages of story if we had to sit through dinner with her and listen to the conversations, notice what was on her plate, and so forth.

mary rosenblum

So you select three or four main events and use them to bridge that gulf of boring time to the next important event.

chekat

What pays big money and how much does it pay?

mary rosenblum

For what kind of writing, chekat?

mary rosenblum

Do you mean novels? Or short stories?

mary rosenblum

This is our After Hours Forum, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and we're having an Open Question Night. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..

wingedwarrior24

Do you rewrite the first stories you sold that were not perfessional and sell again?

mary rosenblum

I haven't, for the most part. Although I did run across a story I wrote some fifteen years ago...couldn't figure out how to end it, didn't like the ending I had on it.

mary rosenblum

I read it and realized what the ending needed to be before I got halfway through. :-) Rewrote the end and sold it to SciFiction...

mary rosenblum

which is the VERY top SF market and actually does pay a buck a word. Only one.

mary rosenblum

As to chekat's question...

mary rosenblum

there is no big money in short fictio.

mary rosenblum

And if you're looking at writing as a way to make a million dollars, it's a poor route.

mary rosenblum

The big...the REALLY big money comes from reliable huge sales.

mary rosenblum

Say 100,000 copies of every book you publish or more.

mary rosenblum

That can happen with your first book...look at Harry Potter...

mary rosenblum

but usually your career builds over several books...King's did.

mary rosenblum

If you have a really good story, great setting, cool idea, you can get offered a big advance...

mary rosenblum

say 5 figures, for your first book but that is very rare.

mary rosenblum

Most authors get under five thousand for their first book...

mary rosenblum

but of course if your book catches on, you'll make money on the royalties no matter how much you got on your advance.

mary rosenblum

If your book sells well, you'll get more next time, more after that, and so forth.

wingedwarrior24

Short non-fic pays more than short fic, is this the same with books?

mary rosenblum

Absolutely. There is a LOT more money in nonfiction.

wingedwarrior24

For the novel course mary, what should we have before we take part in the course?

mary rosenblum

A basic command of English helps. :-)

mary rosenblum

Actually, the course is designed to work with both beginners and advanced writers...

mary rosenblum

the individual instructor will tailor his/her responses to the assignments to the student's level of ability.

mary rosenblum

Taking the Breaking into Print course or its shorter version will help you.

mary rosenblum

You'll be able to focus on the craft of novel rather than basic writing craft, but I don't think they're going to require it.

wolf122

How would you pitch a fantasy trilogy to a publisher? Should all the books be written beforehand, or merely the first one plus an outline/story arc?

mary rosenblum

If you're an unpublished writer, wolf, you'll need to have one book completed before you pitch the series.

mary rosenblum

You should probably offer a detailed synopsis and maybe a couple or three chapters of the subsequent books if you can.

mary rosenblum

If you haven't really thought beyond Book One...

mary rosenblum

and it's a strong stand alone book, just offer it and tell the editor that you could continue this as a series.

wolf122

I'm also thinking of writing two or three short-stories with the same characters as the novel, set before the trilogy takes place. Should I try marketing those first, or the trilogy first?

mary rosenblum

I did that with all my early SF novels, wolf. If the shorts have sold, it increases the editor's interest...you already have a readership for the book.

forest elf

What if you finish all three before book one sells?

mary rosenblum

Then you can work on other things while those three are making their way 'through the pipeline' and onto the shelf, forest! Enviable position to be in!

forest elf

Is it easier to sell a trilogy if all three are finished?

mary rosenblum

It's not a BIG point, but yes, it will add a bit in your favor, forest.

mary rosenblum

Don't wait ten years to try pitching the first book just so you can finish the other two, though!

mary rosenblum

But it can take a Loooooonnnnng time to sell a book, so go ahead and be working on two and three.

mary rosenblum

This is our After Hours Forum, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and we're having an Open Question Night. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..

writeaway

Mary, when we're asked for clips...exactly what is a clip?

mary rosenblum

Technically a clip was just that...an article you wrote clipped from the newspaper or magazine that ran it.

mary rosenblum

In nonfiction, you generally include a copy of actual articles you have written...

mary rosenblum

but in fiction, you simply mention the month and year of the magazine your story appeared in, or the publisher and publication date of a novel.

writeaway

I made two cards that were featured in a national diet magazine... clips?

mary rosenblum

Yep.

mary rosenblum

Anything you have published is good, write!

wingedwarrior24

Any word on the release date of novel course?

mary rosenblum

Yep. We actually have three 'guineapig students' taking the course right now...

mary rosenblum

they get to make sure that everything works the way we think it should work.

mary rosenblum

So it's in the final stages...should be out soon.

owlybear

If you have a lot of clips should you try to pick out the better ones or ones that are closely related to the story you're submitting....

mary rosenblum

Exactly, owly. A page long single spaced list of every piece you've ever sold is going to make an editor's eyes glaze!

mary rosenblum

Pick the largest and most competitive markets and above all, mention sales of similar work...

mary rosenblum

In other words, if you're subbing a SF story, your article on dog leashes is nice, but not real applicable to a fiction submission.

mary rosenblum

Won't impress the editor much.

mary rosenblum

But a sale to Talebones or F & SF will.

whistlin_smithy

How did the panel in Seattle go? Well attended?

mary rosenblum

It went very well, Smithy. :-) They had designed the conference to be a dialogue between writers, experts, and the audience and I think they succeeded nicely.

gwanny

Mary, please define "mainstream"

mary rosenblum

Mainstream is anything that does not get marketed in a particular genre.

mary rosenblum

Bridges of Madison County is mainstream.

mary rosenblum

It does not fit into mystery, sf, romance, horror, adventure, thriller, etc.

diane2

Would Mainstream be more narrative than dialogue?

mary rosenblum

It's not a rule, but you do see quite a bit of narrative form in mainstream....literary as well.

mary rosenblum

But Lonesome Dove was really marketed as mainstream, for example, and it is not a strongly narrative story.

diane2

What type of 'inner values' make a character compelling?

mary rosenblum

Well, it's not a matter of a particular type of inner value, diane. Each reader will like or dislike certain types of people with certain types of values.

mary rosenblum

What makes a character compelling is reality.

mary rosenblum

If this made-up-in-your-head character becomes a person to that reader, someone as real as many other acquaintances in his /her life...

mary rosenblum

that character is compelling.

mary rosenblum

It can bite you, too. :-)

mary rosenblum

I have friends who have killed off or damaged characters who belonged in a series...they get HATE mail from fans!

mary rosenblum

Those were real people to the readers and they were outraged.

mary rosenblum

There is an aspect of writing that involves risk taking.

mary rosenblum

When you write something that really matters to you, you are saying to the world...this is the best I can do.

mary rosenblum

And often, you get this form rejection letter.

mary rosenblum

But you really have to do that...throw yourself into the 'best you can do' every time.

mary rosenblum

That's why so many people quit.

mary rosenblum

It's hard to pick yourself up off the ground and start the next story when that 'best' just earned another rejection.

mary rosenblum

There's a saying about jumping horses...

mary rosenblum

when you and the horse approach a jump, you have to throw your heart over and the horse will follow.

mary rosenblum

It means you have to ride as if the horse IS going to take that jump...

mary rosenblum

and if he ducks out, you fall REALLY hard.

mary rosenblum

But if you brace yourself for his duck-out...he'll feel it and duck.

mary rosenblum

So you have to write every story as if it's the Pulitzer winner, believe it.

mary rosenblum

And pick yourself up and do it again...and again.

speckledorf

I love that saying...being a horsey person:--)

mary rosenblum

I've taken a couple of THOSE falls, too. LOL...when I was younger and still bounced when I landed!

wingedwarrior24

Are there begginer friendly book publishers?

mary rosenblum

Well, you know there are plenty of places where it's easy to publish, but start with the top markets and work your way down.

mary rosenblum

Believe in that story.

mary rosenblum

Keep believing in it.

mary rosenblum

If you merely want to hold your published work in your hands, you can do the iUniverse route.

mary rosenblum

There's nothing wrong with that.

mary rosenblum

There is a huge difference between wanting to see your story/novel in print and wanting a career as a writer.

mary rosenblum

The first is easy to do. The second is a lot more work.

wingedwarrior24

iUniverse?

mary rosenblum

That's a very good Print on Demand vanity press...

mary rosenblum

they're cheap, do a nice job, are a great resource for people who want to self publish...

mary rosenblum

and can't come up with the money to pay for an entire print run at a traditinal vanity press.

mary rosenblum

A number of my students who had family memoirs, poetry collections, and the like have used them.

wingedwarrior24

Do you have to take money out of pocket for iUniverse?

mary rosenblum

Oh yes, it's a for-pay publisher. But the upfront fee is pretty small...it was under 300 last time I checked.

mary rosenblum

That may have changed.

mary rosenblum

I did an interview with them about a year ago...it's on the website...Surviving and Thriving: Interview Transcripts.

mary rosenblum

The main thing with writing is that the more you do it, the better you get.

mary rosenblum

Too many novices send out a couple of stories and say 'I'm no good'.

mary rosenblum

But if you keep writing, you will keep improving.

mary rosenblum

Editors will notice you in the slush.

mary rosenblum

Eventually, someone will buy that first story.

mary rosenblum

It's not a matter of 'are you good or are you not'.

mary rosenblum

You may not be writing publishable prose today, but six stories from now, twelve queries from now...you may be.

mary rosenblum

And remember...you can always set up a website and publish your own work.

mary rosenblum

The internet is a strange and mysterious place and when things propagate, they can do so quickly.

mary rosenblum

It's a good way to get reader feedback, but DO realize that published is published...

mary rosenblum

you can't turn around and sell THAT story to a magazine later...

mary rosenblum

but if it was really popular an editor may well have heard of you when you next submit.

mary rosenblum

And story set in the same universe may sell.

wingedwarrior24

are you saying you can only sell a story once?

mary rosenblum

Nope. I have stories that have been published six or seven different places or more...haven't kept count.

mary rosenblum

BUT...you can only sell First Rights once, and the top markets only want First Rights...they want to publish first.

mary rosenblum

You can sell second rights (reprint rights) or anthology rights over and over and over again.

writeaway

But you can write it as a short story and write it into a novel and sell that?

mary rosenblum

You bet, write!

mary rosenblum

And guess what...amazon.com just thought of that.

mary rosenblum

They're going to start a new project...if you have a book up on amazon.com...

mary rosenblum

you can offer short stories for download so that readers can get a taste of what you write...

mary rosenblum

and see if they want to buy the book.

mary rosenblum

You can do that yourself...

mary rosenblum

Actually, you could use it as a sales tool, too.

mary rosenblum

Say you have a fantasy novel.

mary rosenblum

You write a couple of short stories set in your fantasy universe and post them on a website...

mary rosenblum

and you get TONS of feedback and hits. Everyone loves 'em.

mary rosenblum

When you pitch the book to an editor or agent, you give them the numbers...

mary rosenblum

I got these emails, this many hits.

mary rosenblum

Now you can of course fake these, so they're not going to treat them as gospel...

mary rosenblum

but editors and agents are sharp and if they think your attention is real, they'll be impressed.

owlybear

What's the difference between First NA rights and First NA Serial rights... one of the mags I want to submit to ask for the Serial rights...

mary rosenblum

Serial just means magazine, owly.

mary rosenblum

Same thing.

mary rosenblum

A lot of mags have simply dropped the 'serial'.

wingedwarrior24

Do you need an agent to submit to iUniverse?

mary rosenblum

No winged. You are paying them to publish your book for a fee and they're quite reputable.

mary rosenblum

They do have a contract...you can't publish elsewhere while you are publishing it with them...and they pay royalties on books sold...

mary rosenblum

but it's very straightforward.

mary rosenblum

And no, it is not likely that a big NY publisher will publish it after it has been published by iUniverse unless your sales are VERY good...

mary rosenblum

like in the nature of several thousand copies in the first 6 months.

info

Can you clarify the contract thing? Do they mean that particular book or all books?

mary rosenblum

Just that particular book, info.

mary rosenblum

Sorry. I was unclear.

wingedwarrior24

Does even the worst of sales make money?

mary rosenblum

No, winged. Publishing DOES cost someone money! Even at iUniverse, you have to earn back the money you spent to publish the book...we'll say 200 before you make any.

mary rosenblum

Say your book sells for 15.00 and you get 10 percent royalties...

mary rosenblum

for every book you sell, you get 1.50.

mary rosenblum

You can do the math. :-)

mary rosenblum

Once you have sold that 200 worth of books, you'll make money on any books you sell from then on.

mary rosenblum

Hi, Kate!

mary rosenblum

Kate Daniels, our guest for Thursday, has just joined us for a practice run here.

mary rosenblum

Yep, you're here. :-)

writeaway

Hi, Kate.

mary rosenblum

Kate writes YA mystery and is a fellow SFWA member...Science Fiction Writers of America.

gwanny

Hi Kate,,,,welcome

marty

Welcome Kate

ashton

Howdy, Kate!

mary rosenblum

I hope you all join us on Thursday when I chat with Kate.

mary rosenblum

Daniel. I will spell her name correctly this time !

mary rosenblum

You can find a link to her website on the calendar page on the LR website.

mary rosenblum

Thanks for coming tonight, and we'll see you all on Thursday! Have a good weekend!

chekat

Hi Kate! Welcome.

writeaway

Nite, Mary and Kate. Have a good and safe Memorial week-end.

guestspeaker

thanks for the welcomes, everyone. :) I'll practice before Thursday so I won't be so slow.

mary rosenblum

thanks, Write! You too, and all of you have a safe weekend!

 

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