| mary rosenblum | Hello, all!
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| mary rosenblum | This is our After Hours Forum, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..
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| mary rosenblum | I may have to take a momentary break here. I just brought my new puppy home... 8 weeks...
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| mary rosenblum | and she's outside in the pen to potty. Have to bring her in, shortly. :-)
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| mary rosenblum | So there will be a brief puppy break
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| mary rosenblum | I hope you all got a chance to visit with Michael Arnzen last night.
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| mary rosenblum | He had some interesting things to say about writing short short fiction and we came up with several good markets.
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| mary rosenblum | The transcripts are posted at Surviving and Thriving: Interview Transcripts, if you missed him.
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| mary rosenblum | Short short, or flash or fast fiction is becoming a much larger market, especially online.
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| mary rosenblum | And it's a great way to hone your skills.
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| ducky | What's your puppy's name?
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| mary rosenblum | Her registered name is long, but my name for her is Annie. That was a dog in one of my mysteries...sort of my ideal dog. Annie just felt right for her.
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| mary rosenblum | We'll see if she lives up to her name. :-)
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| mary rosenblum | I have some story ideas left over from our Tuesday forum.
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| mary rosenblum | I wanted to look at them here and then we'll do an open question forum for the rest of the time.
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| mary rosenblum | For those of you who weren't there...Tuesday I looked at story ideas that were sent to me and talked about how..
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| mary rosenblum | to make them shorter if necessary.
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| mary rosenblum | Two sisters lock Grandpa in the outhouse. They wait all day and evening for
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| to meet boyfriend, other sister goes to |
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| middle of the night and has to go to the |
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| Grandpa takes his revenge and locks HER in |
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| by Duck |
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| mary rosenblum | This has a lot of potential as a fun story, Ducky.
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| mary rosenblum | I suspect it's more of a nostalgia story than a YA piece, ...
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| mary rosenblum | mainly because few kids today have a clue about outhouse culture.
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| ducky | It is nostalgia - it's also a quasi-true story
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| mary rosenblum | Exactly. :-)
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| mary rosenblum | It's ideal for a short story. I can't imagine it going very long and it's quite plot driven.
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| mary rosenblum | We don't really need to become intimate with our characters. They merely need to be vivid and interesting.
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| mary rosenblum | I'd certainly try it with Good Old Days or Grit or one of the other nostalgia markets.
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| mary rosenblum | And of course since it's based on a true story you can market it as personal narrataive to the nonfiction market. :-)
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| mary rosenblum | This is a classic short story plot...classic in the sense of just right.
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| mary rosenblum | Simple, straightforward and it depends on action and a simple climax.
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| mary rosenblum | This is our After Hours Forum, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..
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| mary rosenblum | A woman awakes on the floor of an old abandoned mansion. She soon
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| she is, where she is or how she got |
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| search through the mansion for answers, her |
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| turns into an adventure of intrigue, |
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| not knowing who she is, she ends up |
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| the side of a steep cliff, |
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| As she starts her slow, painful climb up, she |
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| and her will to live, when something amazing |
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| return! With each memory comes a new |
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| strength to take another step, until she reaches |
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| mary rosenblum | Well, this is a little vague, but I take it that we're going to find out why she is there and she's going to be in danger, right?
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| mary rosenblum | This is a very internal story from what I see here.
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| mary rosenblum | Although there may be some 'bad guys' that aren't mentioned in the story summary here.
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| mary rosenblum | This has the makings of a nice action driven mystery short story if she is dealing with attacks, danger, or some other plot device that ...
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| mary rosenblum | keeps the story moving as her memory slowly returns.
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| mary rosenblum | brb
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| mary rosenblum | What you don't want here is a very internal story...
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| mary rosenblum | with no external action or danger...although it sounds as if there is going to be action.
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| tory | Mary, is hanging off the cliff not danger enough?
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| mary rosenblum | Well, not enough if it only comes at the end and we're bored and quit before that.
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| mary rosenblum | It's not enough to tell the reader, 'just wait until the end, it's GREAT'.
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| mary rosenblum | You need to make the story compelling all the way from beginning to end.
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| mary rosenblum | Hang on. :-) I just have two more story summaries and then we'll do questions!
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| mary rosenblum | An elderly lady writes about her life as a pioneer as she is buried alive on Black Sunday of the Dust Bowl. The letter shows the courage and spirit of the pioneers that settled the Midwest. She loses everything except her life, but has the spirit to fight another day.
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| mary rosenblum | Geezer this has a lot of potential. I"m not sure that a letter is your best vehicle for this. Why not let us join her as she struggles through the dust storm, digs out, and determines to go on?
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| mary rosenblum | While epistilary form can work, it is rarely as compelling as the actual action.
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| mary rosenblum | And in this case, where you are focusing on a particular event, I suggest you simply show it happening. That is going to be very compelling to the many people...
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| mary rosenblum | who don't know anything about the dust bowl or Black Sunday.
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| mary rosenblum | Actually, that is my last 'leftover' story summary!
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| mary rosenblum | I do have a question that came in by email, and then I"ll open this to questions on any topic.
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| mary rosenblum | I sent a query to Ladies Home Journal in June. The guidelines give a
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| I called Mon to check on status as they don't |
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| want to know what I should do. The |
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| she'd find it and call me back. I have not heard from |
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| do? |
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| mary rosenblum | Ah, the response time issue is always such a big one. :-)
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| mary rosenblum | Now four to eight weeks is very short.
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| mary rosenblum | But they probably reject most novice submissions out of hand.
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| mary rosenblum | They ARE a top pro market.
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| mary rosenblum | I would be more willing to wait longer, since editors will often hang onto a novice submission...
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| mary rosenblum | waiting until they have a strong issue with 'extra space' to include a new writer.
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| mary rosenblum | And sometimes, if you query, the editor simply returns your piece with a rejection. Especially if you catch her on a bad day.
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| mary rosenblum | BUT June is a LONG time ago and by now, you should have heard. It is probably lost. I would simply query politely and offer to resend.
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| mary rosenblum | You probably talked to a very overworked assistant assistant editor who promptly forgot you.
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| mary rosenblum | This is our After Hours Forum, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..
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| paja | Mary maybe LHJ is like Storyhouse Coffee, they don't reply to rejections>
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| mary rosenblum | They should say so in their guidelines, paja.
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| mary rosenblum | While a lot of editors do not reply to poorly written queries, all that I know DO reply.
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| mary rosenblum | subie, want to send your question in chunks? Or type /ask in front of the question in your regular send bar.
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| curseofthe44 | I sent a submission that only said a few weeks. I waited double the time and sent an email. I must have made the editor upset, because she rejected me the next day in her response email.
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| mary rosenblum | Yeah, alas, that is what often happens.
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| mary rosenblum | BUT...ms DO get lost. Especially when it's a big market like LHJ.
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| mary rosenblum | They get hundreds of submissions and queries each WEEK.
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| newbie subie | What do they mean by "creative nonfiction"?
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| mary rosenblum | Subie, creative nonfiction is essentially a story only it's not fiction. :-)
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| mary rosenblum | It is usually a writer's account of experiences in his or her life and written like fiction, only as I said, they are true...more or less...events.
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| mary rosenblum | You can market this to the nonfiction markets.
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| catydorr | mary I know this is off topic but can you give me an idea of the word difference between a novel and a novelette when you have a moment
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| mary rosenblum | Yes, Caty. Let me look up the SFWA definition because that is what everyone uses...
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| mary rosenblum | Novel is 40,000 words or more
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| mary rosenblum | Novella is 17,500-39,999 words
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| mary rosenblum | Novelette is 7500 - 17,499 words
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| mary rosenblum | and short story, needless to say, is 1 - 7499 words..
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| mary rosenblum | although if you can tell a story in one word, I am impressed. :-)
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| mary rosenblum | This is our After Hours Forum, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..
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| ducky | Word Count - I'm told different editors do it different ways. Is there any standard for how you count? What's your experience?
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| mary rosenblum | Me, I use my computer count and round accordingly.
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| mary rosenblum | No one has ever complained and nobody has ever changed the word count on the contract.
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| mary rosenblum | Yes, editors have their own methods, but I suspect unless you are clearly WAY off...they'll accpet yours.
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| mary rosenblum | And realize that people who read ms all day KNOW how many pages equals how many words.
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| mary rosenblum | I have students who send me six pages doublespaced with '500 words' typed at the top.
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| mary rosenblum | Is that 500 words? Ha.
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| tory | Mary, did my question about chapter submissions come thru?
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| mary rosenblum | No, Tory, it didn't. Do you want to ask it now?
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| newbie subie | For the lady on the cliff story: what about her inner struggles and confusion while she climbs?
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| mary rosenblum | That would work, newbie. But you'll have to make her a real and compelling character so that we care about her.
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| mary rosenblum | It's very doable, just a lot more difficult than using more action.
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| mary rosenblum | Tory, send me the last part. :-) It's a good question!
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| tory | IF they want three, do they mean 1,2 and 3 or , since I'm ..
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| tory | unpublishes, should I send say 1,8 and 14 so they know I can
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| tory | do the whole book and they can see character developmt.?
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| mary rosenblum | This is a very good question, tory. Editors usually use those three chapters as a writing test.
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| mary rosenblum | If your synopsis looks good and the chapters read well, they'll ask to see the entire ms and make their decision from that.
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| mary rosenblum | If they don't specify and you think chapters 6, 7, and 8 are REALLY great, you could send those.
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| mary rosenblum | A couple of editors I know tell me that when they look at the whole ms, they read the first chapter, flip to the middle, then read the end and then decide if it's worth reading the whole thing.
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| mary rosenblum | My agent always wants the first three chapters.
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| mary rosenblum | It's likely that you'll be subbing through an agent and in that case, discuss it with your agent.
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| mary rosenblum | If you're submitting Romance, I would send the first three chapters. They want to see if you start well.
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| curseofthe44 | I am writing a story about Roswell. I am writing it from the point of view of an injured "alien." How would you suggest I maintain action? I've written it as if he is remembering the crash as it happened.
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| mary rosenblum | Curse, you can frame that kind of story with the present...do the flashback transition and then describe the action as if it is happening right now rather than letting the alien TELL us about it later.
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| mary rosenblum | OR you could simplylet him crash. Is there a reason he has to be remembering this?
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| arfelin | Does a person have a better chance of getting a good agent if they publish a novel on their own first?
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| mary rosenblum | Arefelin, you have a much easier time getting a good agent if you have a contract in hand. :-) Don't sign it, just start calling agents.
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| mary rosenblum | BUT many publishers won't accept unagented submissions.
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| mary rosenblum | So then you have to find an agent first.
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| curseofthe44 | Yes, I'm using the "Alien Interview" tape as the lead in for the military to debrief him on what happened.
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| mary rosenblum | Well, then just make his account vivid and compelling, curse. :-)
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| catydorr | mary have you written for the Alfred Hitchcock magazine before and are they difficult to break into
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| mary rosenblum | I've sold my mystery shorts to Janet at EQ, caty. Neither magazine is hard to break into. Janet at EQ is particularly fond of publishing first sales.
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| mary rosenblum | I actually haven't sent anything to AH.
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| newbie subie | Do you need to send a resume' with submissions?
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| mary rosenblum | Not for fictio, newbie. The story stands on its own. DO mention any publishing credits, though.
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| mary rosenblum | Hard to type with a sleeping puppy on my lap... :-)
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| arfelin | I've been rejected by AHMM many times but I'm still trying. They seem to use a lot of the same authors, though.
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| mary rosenblum | Of course, arfelin. People buy the magazine because their favorite author is in it!
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| mary rosenblum | Remember that your first published story will only sell a copy to your mother. :-) BUT editors are always looking for new writers.
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| mary rosenblum | You DO have to send in very strong stories to break in. You're competing with pros.
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| hedwig | I've been writing a young woman in prison for 3 counts of murder for the past 3 years (she's in for life without parole). She went to prison as a young teenager, one of the youngest ever for her crime. I'd like to turn my experience of writing to her and her story into a series of articles. Any ideas on how I can find markets to query?
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| mary rosenblum | I'd go browsing to Barnes and Noble or other bookstores, hedwig, and I'd read the market listings.
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| mary rosenblum | I find that browsing real magazines is more inspirational to me. All guidelines tend to sound the same!
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| speckledorf | PM So Annie is being spoiled already...good for you! How is she doing?
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| janp | :-) Annie is off to a good start. Sleeping while Mom works. One the job training?
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| mary rosenblum | I'm laughing, all. :-) Poor dog was only in the house for a half hour or so before I had to go online. Might as well give her a little comfort. :-)
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| mary rosenblum | This is our After Hours Forum, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..
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| catydorr | I have a couple of my mysteries that seem to fit their publishing style
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| mary rosenblum | Go for it, caty!
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| tory | When we write sounds--ring. splat. click. Do they need ...
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| tory | quotes or italic or plain font?
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| mary rosenblum | A lot of publishers use italic to indicate sounds. That shows the reader that they are hearing this but nobody is saying it.
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| mary rosenblum | Italic is often used for non human speech, such as a talking computer...or perhaps a telepathic conversation...too.
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| catydorr | thanks mary I think I will-I got excellent comments on it in my critique group and it's the gottcha ending
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| mary rosenblum | good luck! Keep us posted!
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| mary rosenblum | Remember that you nearly always should use underlining to indicate italic.
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| mary rosenblum | This is a leftover from typewriter days, but it has to do with how the typesetter is taught to translate ms into the printed page.
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| mary rosenblum | Just do it.
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| mary rosenblum | More questions? I'm open for anything right now.
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| ducky | What's Mt. St. Helen's doing right now?
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| mary rosenblum | Not much, from what I"ve heard. Spilling out magma, rebuilding the peak. :-)
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| mary rosenblum | writeaway asked if Michael's stories in 'gorelets' were typical for short short stories...
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| mary rosenblum | since they seemed more like essays than stories.
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| mary rosenblum | well, short shorts vary a lot in style..
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| mary rosenblum | and remember that when you're working with very few words...you are trying to convey a compelling story...
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| mary rosenblum | and hold the reader. So anything that works...works.
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| mary rosenblum | I think short shorts are less 'typical' than any other form of fiction.
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| curseofthe44 | I need a couple of suggestion on how to write in a description of someone when I am using first person POV.
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| mary rosenblum | Well, your first person POV had to have reason to notice that person. That's it. YOu'll simply have to give that person reason to see details, curse.
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| mary rosenblum | YOU can't step in and describe anyone as author or it really jars the reader.
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| hedwig | Mary, I've already been browsing in B & N and Writer's Market, but I guess nothing is jumping out at me. What types of mags should I check out? Nothing clearly covers "teens in prison." Any suggestions where you might start?
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| mary rosenblum | Marketing can be tough, hedwig. Start with 'who wants to read this?" and once you have identified likely readers, ask yourself what magazines they might read.
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| newbie subie | I just sent in lesson 6, am I close to submission time?
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| newbie subie | Also, what can I expect as far as rejections vs publication?
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| mary rosenblum | Ah, newbiek, I"m smiling!
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| mary rosenblum | Send out anything that YOU think is ready to send out!
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| mary rosenblum | The more you send out the better.
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| mary rosenblum | Editors want productive writers.
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| mary rosenblum | And you can expect LOTS of rejection slips. You have to earn your way into this biz...and you do that by being stubborn and sending out your work, and getting better.
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| mary rosenblum | Sooner or later an editor will decide that he/she should buy from you before someone else snaps you up.
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| mary rosenblum | And is is /ask in your regular send bar to ask a longer questions. :-)
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| writeaway | I love writing this type story, just didn't know what style
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| mary rosenblum | The market for short short is VERY open and includes a lot of styles.
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| mary rosenblum | Because it is so short, you get more 'editor bias' about what he/she wants to see...
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| mary rosenblum | and so what works for this market won't work for that..
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| mary rosenblum | On the flip side, that means you can find a market for nearly any style of short short you write.
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| catydorr | mary do you know anything about the November Novel month
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| mary rosenblum | Nope. I gather that it is according to at least one website. Never heard of it.
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| arfelin | Is it okay to name a pro sports team in a story--the story's not about the team.
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| mary rosenblum | Sure. Public people...and pro teams are public...can be used in stories. just don't libel them. :-)
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| janp | Why is it that the macabre or horror seems to be the criteria for "literary" work. I'm still scratching my head over that Bruce? Holland Rogers story we referred to last night. Just finished James Patterson's " Sam's Letters to Jennifer" but that probably would not qualify as, "literary." Much more readable
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| mary rosenblum | I don't think horror and literary share the same bed at all, janp. Bruce H.Rogers is a friend of mine, but essentially a small press writer with no recognition in the world of 'literary' fiction.
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| mary rosenblum | From what I have read, literary fiction includes little horror although some fantasy in the form of magic realism.
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| mary rosenblum | Literary' is a genre that is very focused on style rather than the traditional plot/character story.
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| ducky | Rejections vs. publication - isn't the ratio something like 1,187,266 to ONE publication??
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| mary rosenblum | Oh GOODNESS no, ducky! I'd still be strugglng with my first sale if THAT was true, lol!
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| mary rosenblum | Okay, here's a bit of reality for you.
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| mary rosenblum | I have not read samples from all of you, but I have over 200 LR students of my own...
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| mary rosenblum | and I can tell you that over 80% of those students...well over 80% will be in the top ten percent of the slush pile and quite a few of those will be in the top 5%.
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| mary rosenblum | Most of the average slush pile is absolute garbage...badly written, spelling, language, grammar problems.. REALLY REALLY BAD.
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| mary rosenblum | You all are not competing with them. You are competing with the others in that top ten percent.
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| arfelin | I read a story in EQ last year that was written by one of Mary's students--first story dept.
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| mary rosenblum | Oh which one was that, areflin? Jill's? I've had a couple of students sell there.
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| tory | Slush pile is slush; no?
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| mary rosenblum | Not at all.
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| mary rosenblum | Slush is mostly dreck, then there is the top ten percent of pretty well written novice ms...then there is the semi-pro pile (one small press sale or so, or you're a grad of a well known workshop or whatever)...
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| mary rosenblum | then there are the pros.
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| mary rosenblum | The editor looks at the pro pile first, the semi pro next and then looks for good stories in the novice pile.
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| mary rosenblum | The top ten percent group, I mean.
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| arfelin | I was thinking Judy but it might have been Jill. Can't remember.
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| mary rosenblum | I've had two or three sell there, arfelin.
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| joanc | Mary I am going to go ahead and send a query to 'Additude', because my article is inline with what they are looking for. However, is necessary to include my sidebar since the magazine deals directly with my subject.
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| mary rosenblum | I can't tell you that, joanc, since i don't know the magazine or what you are sending, but all you need do with a query...
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| mary rosenblum | is to mention that you can provide a sidebar listing the information you plan to include.
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| mary rosenblum | The editor will say no thanks if she doesn't want it.
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| catydorr | so in otherwords always include credits in cover letter so the publishers gets an idea you have something under your belt right?
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| mary rosenblum | ALWAYS include credits unless the editor knows you.
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| mary rosenblum | I don't bother to include credits in a SF submission. Even if I don't know the editor, I'm well known enough in SF that the editor knows of me.
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| mary rosenblum | But if I query a nonfiction mag, say, I'll include credits. They don't know SF writers, most likely.
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| arfelin | Just looked it up. It was Jill in the Dec. 2003 issue.
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| mary rosenblum | Yeah. She just finished a novel using that same mileau.
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| newbie subie | Please explain sidebar.
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| mary rosenblum | If you notice in some magazine articles, newbie, there is often a separate boxed bit of information...
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| mary rosenblum | sometimes on a different colored background. Say the article is about Carribean Getaways...
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| mary rosenblum | the box might contain hotel contact infor or tour package providers.
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| mary rosenblum | It is usually a separate listing of the sort of details that would bog down your article but that the reader might want..
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| mary rosenblum | website URLS, phone numbers, places to buy fancy ingredients for recipes...that sort of thing.
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| mary rosenblum | You get paid extra for them.
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| info | Do you remember within a couple of weeks ago, I sent you an email regarding brand names and sent a short with it so you would know in what context I was refering to? If so, I was wondering you you could tell me if that story would be in a slush pile even after more editing,
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| mary rosenblum | Well ALL stories end up in the slush pile, info, even pros. :-) As to where in the pile you'll end up, I can't possibly guess, but you're certianly in that top percentage.
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| curseofthe44 | Mary, I would like to know if there is (or going to be) something beyond the "Breaking Into Print" course--beside a novel course. Is there anything that gets more in depth at the fiction or non fiction stories?
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| mary rosenblum | Curse, I haven't heard of anything. You could always write to LR and suggest something. If they get enough interest they;ll probably do a course.
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| mary rosenblum | They're doing the novel course because of all the student requests.
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| info | being in the top percentage is a good thing, right?
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| mary rosenblum | Well, yeah. If you think of the 1000 ms that are going to supply the very few slots open in this month's issue...you do NOT want to be at the bottom of the pile.
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| mary rosenblum | The editor is going to start at the top and work down.
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| mary rosenblum | Well, this has been a fun Forum and Annie bless her slept through most of it. :-)
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| ducky | From what you say then, I guess I have a better chance than I let myself think - it's so easy to get "pie in the sky" about it.
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| mary rosenblum | YOu do, ducky.
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| mary rosenblum | LR does select students for Breaking Into Print at least.
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| mary rosenblum | Most of my students...nearly all...could publish if they really worked at it. A lot don't work at it.
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| curseofthe44 | You're in for a long night with that puppy, Mary
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| mary rosenblum | Oh yeah...but hey, they grow up a LOT quicker than kids!
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| mary rosenblum | I'll post this in the usual place!
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| mary rosenblum | See you all on Sunday for our regular open chat!
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| mary rosenblum | The transcript will be at Writing Craft: Forum Transcripts.
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| mary rosenblum | Thank you all for coming.
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| joanc | That's a very go point Mary. You can't just go from assignment to assignment. You have to write everyday.
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| mary rosenblum | Yes, joan, and writing and submitting ARE work! No getting around it!
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