Forum Transcripts

Publishing Options 6/17/05

Event start time:

Fri Jun 17 19:06:54 2005

Event end time:

Fri Jun 17 20:30:59 2005



Legend:
Questions from the Audience are presented in red.
Answers by the Speaker are in black.
The Moderator's comments are in blue.

mary rosenblum

Hello all!

mary rosenblum

I hope you've all had a good week!

mary rosenblum

Welcome to our Friday After Hours Forum.

mary rosenblum

I wanted to talk about publishing and all the options available to writers...it can seem pretty overwhelming...

mary rosenblum

when you open a market list!

mary rosenblum

And markets have really proliferated in the past ten years...

mary rosenblum

with the advent of 'ebooks and 'ezines, books on CD or for download, and the for-a-fee print on demand publishers.

mary rosenblum

It gets really hard to know what makes a good choice for marketing and what is a not so good choice!

mary rosenblum

This is our After Hours Forum, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and tonight we're talking about publishing options. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..

redhead68

Mary what is a market list?

mary rosenblum

Redhead, a market list is simply a book or a website that lists publishers and their guidelines for submissions as well as the address for submission.

mary rosenblum

Best of the Magazine Markets is sold by Long Ridge.

mary rosenblum

Writers Digest offers a Novel guide.

mary rosenblum

And you'll find a host of free and for pay market sources online just by googling writers markets.

geezer

I looking through the Best of Magazine Markets. What is the difference between experimental, contemporary, literary, and mainstream fiction?

mary rosenblum

They are subtle flavors of the same genre, geezer.

mary rosenblum

Experimental means jus that...it is written in an atypical form, not your usual fictional form.

mary rosenblum

Maybe it uses no punctuation.

mary rosenblum

Maybe it is written in the form of a list.

mary rosenblum

It is a very small niche in the rarified 'literary' end of the spectrum.

mary rosenblum

Contemporary means set in today's world rather than the past or future.

mary rosenblum

Mainstream means it's not a member of any genre...

mary rosenblum

not horror, mystery, western,etc.

mary rosenblum

Literary means it is written with an eye to form and style rather than conflict and character.

wolf122

How safe is it to publish e-books? Couldn't anyone buy one copy, and then e-mail it to all over the place?

mary rosenblum

Well, ebooks can be copied.

mary rosenblum

They can be encrypted to make it difficult for the average person, but it'll happen, just as downloaded stories and books can be shared around.

mary rosenblum

But people buy books and lend them to their friends who then do NOT buy the book...

mary rosenblum

so you figure you lose some sales but gain a word of mouth audience.

mary rosenblum

You can't totally control your work.

seigfried007

or print out several copies and sell them?

mary rosenblum

That has happened, and that's when you prosecute.

mary rosenblum

I have had two stories in the past year that were being sold on websites...

mary rosenblum

in one case SFWA shut the site down with their lawyers...in the other, the SciFiction ezine sent their lawyers after the person.

mary rosenblum

These people were selling stories.

mary rosenblum

I personally have no problem if people share my work around. Why get ulcers? I can't stop it, and in the end, it increases my readers.

mary rosenblum

Most people do prefer to own something they like and they want to buy the next book as soon as it comes out...not borrow it later.

writeaway

But, on the flip-side, isn't it a good way for a newbee to attain an audience?

mary rosenblum

Exactly.

mary rosenblum

But I do know writers who foam at the mouth at the mere thought that someone might STEAL one of their books.

wolf122

How long after trying and trying with regular publishers, or receive rejection after rejection, do you turn to small-press as a viable alternative?

mary rosenblum

You have to take that on a story by story basis, wolf.

mary rosenblum

If you have a story that is finished, polished, and you think it's great. Start at the top market.

mary rosenblum

Work your way 'down' according to circulation and pay.

mary rosenblum

Realize that editors pay attention to repeated submisisons even as they clip on the form rejection.

mary rosenblum

Continued silence does not necessarily mean 'go away'.

mary rosenblum

It very likely means...'you're getting better, in about two more tries, I think I"ll buy from you'.

redhead68

What do you put on a cover letter when you haven't any clips?

mary rosenblum

Essentially, I really enjoy your magazines, I think my story XXX fits it (and if you think it is similar to a particular story you saw in the mag, say so)...

mary rosenblum

I hope you think so, too, thank you for your time and attention.

mary rosenblum

THat's it.

mary rosenblum

If you have life experience that relates to the story...

mary rosenblum

for example, it's a murder mystery set in a zoo and you are a zoo keeper...

mary rosenblum

then say so. That expertise will matter.

mary rosenblum

Otherwise, it's 'I think my story fits, I like your magazine, here it is, thank you for your time'.

mary rosenblum

And don't forget that SASE!

mary rosenblum

Editors buy first stories all the time!

mary rosenblum

You might be the next King. They don't know. So they check you out.

woods

What about mags that read for a fee?

mary rosenblum

Weeelll...some mags do contests for a fee and publish the results.

mary rosenblum

I am fairly tolerant of that...it keeps us pros out of the competition. Be glad.

mary rosenblum

BUT...if they simply require a fee to read, period...hmmm...I wonder how this mag is actually making its money, hum?

mary rosenblum

I would suspect a little scam there.

seigfried007

what if your expertise comes from less palatable experiences...

mary rosenblum

Hey, if you're on death row and write a thriller from the POV of a serial killer (because you ARE one) your editor's marketing department will drool!

mary rosenblum

There is no BAD publicity or experience.

seigfried007

do you bother mentioning them in cover letters or at all

mary rosenblum

Mention anything that will help sell your ms, seig.

mary rosenblum

I have several inmates of federal pens as students. I am always encouraging 'em to use their experiences in life to write mystery, crime fiction, etc...

mary rosenblum

and of COURSE they need to tell the editor where they live. :-) Besides, their address is on the ms.

mary rosenblum

And I keep suggesting they set their fiction inside the prison.

seigfried007

but what if you're the victim?

mary rosenblum

Well, I suppose if I was the victim and the guy who hurt me was making a fortune off my pain I'd talk to my lawyer.

mary rosenblum

And that person cannot use the victim identifiably in his fiction...

mary rosenblum

that's libel.

mary rosenblum

Or could be called libel and I bet most juries would be on the victim's side.

mary rosenblum

But that's a very specific type of instance, and not something you need to worry about genreally.

seigfried007

no, like: gee mister, i was molested/raped/what have you, so i know how to write about a character who's gone through similar things.

mary rosenblum

Oh...well, there are a lot of published personal narrative books out there that are based on just that...they're in the self help section and the person who wrote 'em made good money.

mary rosenblum

Yes, people DO tell the editor that.

mary rosenblum

Now if you're writing a fiction book, and you write a very vivid scene of say, rape, from the victim's pov...

mary rosenblum

no, you don't tell the editor it's from personal experience.

mary rosenblum

That's not what the book is ABOUT, while the self help book on 'recovering from trauma' is ABOUT that victim's experience.

mary rosenblum

And it's a double edged sword, by the way. LOL

mary rosenblum

If you write a very vivid scene about some sort of mayhem...very realistic...your readers DO wonder just how 'real' those details are!

mary rosenblum

Keep that in mind. :-) It can be a bit of a jolt when you sudenly realize people think it might be based on personal experience. :-)

writeaway

Mary, I noticed that in the past few months, many of the markets aren't accepting ms' right now. do you see this trend lasting long?

mary rosenblum

Oh, it's hard to say why a lot are closed right now.

mary rosenblum

It's highly likely that a few people own those various mags and have run out of funding.

mary rosenblum

That happens. Small mags/ezines open, close, open, close.

mary rosenblum

This is our After Hours Forum, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and tonight we're talking about publishing options. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..

wolf122

I'm half-way through a novel and three short stories, all with the same characters--should I concentrate on publishing the novel first, or would the short stories sell the novel better?

mary rosenblum

Well, wolf, if you can publish the stories...and especially if they get good reviews...

mary rosenblum

they will help you sell your novel. But they're not NECESSARY.

mary rosenblum

Do you write SF?

mary rosenblum

The reason I ask, is that Locus Magazine reviews nearly all SF short stories that get published...

mary rosenblum

and publishers DO read those reviews, keeping an eye out for 'hot new writers'.

mary rosenblum

Not every genre has a good single review source like that...

mary rosenblum

but there are a ton of awards out there in all genres...

mary rosenblum

and if a short story wins an award, publishers notice.

ashton

Does it matter to editors/agents/publishers, ect. if your reseme is filled with published pieces online or in a magazine...or is "published" published to them?

mary rosenblum

Not at all, ashton.

mary rosenblum

Published is not published to any professional in the field.

mary rosenblum

WHERE you are published matters a lot.

mary rosenblum

Now editors do not know all the mags/ezines out there...

mary rosenblum

so always mention a publication. But they DO know all the main ones, so they'll just assume it's small.

mary rosenblum

And it still benefits you...

mary rosenblum

it says you can accept editing, turn a piece in on deadline, and didn't annoy the editor so much he killed your piece. :-)

redhead68

Is there a LR course for novels instead of short stories?

mary rosenblum

Not yet, redhead.

mary rosenblum

To be honest...taking the short story course will do more for your novel craft to begin with than taking the novel course alone.

mary rosenblum

You learn to write tight, compact prose and that will help you beat out similar books in the VERY competitive slush pile.

mary rosenblum

Most novice novelists write VERY sloppy prose and editors really notice tight writing.

writeaway

I was cut off when you started talking about contests, should a win be mentioned with clips, or does this shout amateur?

mary rosenblum

Well, most of the time, to be honest, a contest win just says amateur.

mary rosenblum

Because in reality, professionals do not enter contests, even if they are open to pros.

mary rosenblum

But if you won something HUGE...the Writers Digest Contest or Writers of the Future...

mary rosenblum

that's worth mentioning.

redhead68

Thanks, I am currently enjoying breaking into print course

mary rosenblum

It's a good way to learn to write well for your novel, redhead. :-)

geezer

Student Services said that we need the recommendation of a teacher to take the novel course. On what basis would we get the recommendation?

mary rosenblum

I think right now, a lot of things are in flux, so I"m very reluctant to say much more about the course.

mary rosenblum

Believe me, as soon as everything is in place, I'll have all the details, but it's going to be quite a bit farther down the road than I thought.

mary rosenblum

This is our After Hours Forum, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and tonight we're talking about publishing options. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..

catydorr

How appropriate is it to put a link in a cover letter where the editor can go to read some of your clips?

mary rosenblum

That's a VERY good thing to do, caty, but only, of course, if the cover letter is an email!

mary rosenblum

I can PROMISE you that the editor is HIGHLY unlikely to stop reading slush, bring up the internet and go find your site if he has to type in the url.

redhead68

What was the first story you ever sold, and to who?

mary rosenblum

I sold 'For A Price' to Gardner Dozois, editor of Asimov's Magazine in 1988. It appeared along with three other stories of mine in 1990.

mary rosenblum

And I"ve published more than 50 since, along with lessee..eight novels now.

mary rosenblum

I've also been a Hugo Award nominee, although I haven't had the honor of winning it. Yet. :-) Think positive! LOL

redhead68

Neat, how many times did you submit before being "Published"

mary rosenblum

I probably got rejected more AFTER I got published than before, redhead.

mary rosenblum

I still get rejected. :-) Everyone does.

mary rosenblum

Ha, if you think those rejections are frustrating NOW, just wait until you start selling and you still get 'em.

mary rosenblum

Then they REALLY bug you.

mary rosenblum

Until you really establish yourself as a pro and then you realize they never go away and they don't bother you any more. :-)

mary rosenblum

One of the things that new writers really do have a hard time understanding is that 'Publication' is NOT 'Publication'.

mary rosenblum

A book published with iUniverse does not equate with a book published by Bantam or Random House or even Fairwood Press (a small press house).

mary rosenblum

WHERE you publish is important.

mary rosenblum

So DO start with the big markets.

mary rosenblum

Yes it's frustrating, yes it seems pointless when you get rejection after rejection...

mary rosenblum

but what you do NOT realize is that editors are watching you...

mary rosenblum

and by the time you have sent in your fifth story or query...

mary rosenblum

that editor knows your name if you're halfway decent...

mary rosenblum

and if you're a LR student you are.

tkat_2

Too bad we writers don't get the same number of tries as actors do in Hollywood when looking for that"perfect role".

mary rosenblum

How many is that, tkat?

geezer

Oh, for a rejection! All I get is silence.

mary rosenblum

Is this on query letters, geezer?

geezer

Manuscripts

mary rosenblum

You shouldn't get silence forever geezer, but you may be expecting a response WAY too soon.

mary rosenblum

I figure six months before I even wonder where the thing got to.

mary rosenblum

Most editors will at least send you a rejection...as long as you include a SASE!

mary rosenblum

You ARE doing that, aren't you?

redhead68

It's a bit confusing, you say start at the top and work down, but I thought the goal was to start small and collect clips to put on your resume/cover letter?

mary rosenblum

Yes, and yes, redhead. Now you're really confused, right?

mary rosenblum

Okay, you always send your work to a magazine where it fits...

mary rosenblum

whether that is a query for NF or a story.

mary rosenblum

And you begin with the biggest market you can find...

mary rosenblum

Yeah, your query will probably be ignored at Good Housekeeping and you may finally sell it...

mary rosenblum

to tiny mag on Housekeeping on a Budget put out by your state's Extension Office!

mary rosenblum

And then you have that clip.

mary rosenblum

But don't START wiht that extension office mag if you think GH will want it!

mary rosenblum

Just don't decide you're a lousy writer if the top markets ignore you.

redhead68

What software do you use to keep track of all of your submissions?

mary rosenblum

Ah, it's very hi tech, redhead. Now realize, I do mostly fiction. If was doing career freelance NF, I'd use a spread sheet.

mary rosenblum

You do a LOT of queries and you need something like a spreadsheet.

mary rosenblum

But for fiction, I have a spiral steno book I began back in 1988. I write down title, publisher sent to, date returned (or sold) and postage.

mary rosenblum

I have every submission I ever made and every sale in there...and I highlight sales...

mary rosenblum

so it has become a 'flip book' of my writing career. :-)

mary rosenblum

More pink highlighter as you turn the pages. :-)

mary rosenblum

It's a good way to learn how long an editor normally takes.

mary rosenblum

Gordon Van Gelder takes about a month. Janet Hutchings at EQ takes three, Stan at Analog took four...

redhead68

Just keep submitting, submitting submitting, right?

mary rosenblum

Yes. And you know why?

mary rosenblum

Editors are not looking for a perfect story or a good article query...

mary rosenblum

yeah, they'll happily buy it if it's perfect...but what they are REALLY...

mary rosenblum

looking for are reliable productive writers who will fill 12 issues a year for 'em (or more).

mary rosenblum

And if they see good query after good query...story after story...

mary rosenblum

and they're okay and slowly getting better...

mary rosenblum

sooner or later they'll buy one.

mary rosenblum

and I am NOT kidding...

mary rosenblum

if you are submitting regulary, the editor knows your name.

catydorr

Ah, the importance of working on more than one thing at a time and don't forget the SASE right?

mary rosenblum

It is a VERY good idea to have multiple projects in circulation or at least under way.

mary rosenblum

Send this one out, work on that one, then you don't watch the mailbox! Watching the mailbox is a great way to get writers block and SERIOUS depression when the ms comes back !

wingedwarrior24

What exactly are queries?

mary rosenblum

Winged, nonfiction is usually written to query.

mary rosenblum

You write to say, Fish and Game, and say, 'hey, I've got this great interview with the guide who takes hunters into outer Mongolia'.

mary rosenblum

And the editor of Fish and Game writes back and says, "Great, I want 1500 words, send it to me'.

mary rosenblum

And you write it.

redhead68

Used to be a paralegal, we didn't use those, have you found any software, or do you just keep it all in your very flammable steno?

mary rosenblum

Oh it's all there waiting to go up in flames if my house burns. :-)

mary rosenblum

I suppose it would fit in my fire safe. :-)

mary rosenblum

I would use a spread sheet program to track your submissions if you want to use software.

mary rosenblum

Quite a few writers I know do..excel, whatever.

mary rosenblum

I know of not software designed specifically to track subs, but it probably exists...more likely in the freelance NF universe.

wolf122

Is there any way you could list your top two or three publisher recomendations to submit for both fantasy novels and mags?

mary rosenblum

Wolf there aren't many good short fantasy markets now... mostly anthologies or novels.

mary rosenblum

Black Gate is good.

mary rosenblum

Fantasy is pretty much a novel genre.

wingedwarrior24

I put the rejection on the top page on my proccessor to remember and if I send it out I just delete, print and then put it back. Is that a good idea?

mary rosenblum

Whatever works for you...just be sure to delete it before you print and send the ms, LOL!

redhead68

Thanks Mary, I like paper method also, just checking to see if there were any hi-tech ways to do it better:)

mary rosenblum

There probably are, as I said. :-) But writers are mostly broke and cheap, so we may not be a very good market, LOL

info

if you submit a ms or short to a mag that states you'll get a response in 3 or 4 months and you get a rejection in one month, could this be a good sign? Something like that your ms was good but not what they are looking for?

mary rosenblum

It's hard to read response time, info. It can be a sign that they aren't really looking for anybody but a 'name'...

mary rosenblum

and just rushed through the pile and dumped anybody they didn't recognize. They might be overstocked.

mary rosenblum

A long response time CAN mean good things. Sometimes an editor will hold a firsttime sub, waiting for space in a particularly strong issue..

mary rosenblum

where she can slip in a piece from a new author.

redhead68

I hear that, my husband keeps asking me when I'm going to get a PAYING job!

mary rosenblum

Most of us ask ourselves that now and again, LOL

ashton

Would you say the market for sci-fi is pretty stable right now and do you ever see it taking the back seat?

mary rosenblum

The back seat to what, ashton?

monda

What about querying for newspapers? I often see feature articles in the Washington Post as"special to the Post" What's the best approach for presentation here?

mary rosenblum

Journalism is its own universe, monda, and I don't know a lot about it. BUT...

mary rosenblum

my friend Deborah Wood got a weekly column in our metro paper here by writing a proposal to the senioor editor of the Oregonian...

mary rosenblum

She pointed out that they had no regular 'pet' column...

mary rosenblum

and gave him statistics on how much Americans spend on pet products every year (in other words, think advertisers)...

mary rosenblum

and she landed a weekly full page feature.

mary rosenblum

She saw a need in the paper, proposed filling it, and got the job.

redhead68

how is a Proposal different than a Query?

mary rosenblum

Same thing. Different words.

mary rosenblum

This is our After Hours Forum, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and tonight we're talking about publishing options. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..

mary rosenblum

Oh, Monda, if you run into Owlybear on the site, he writes regulary for a couple of papers...ask him how he got started. :-)

mary rosenblum

In fact you're here, owly. :-)

mary rosenblum

Maybe you can answer that.

ashton

Well, everything seems to come and go. I see a lot of Romance out there...and true stories are on the rise along with reality tv. Do you suppose people will ever tire of UFO stories and the like?

mary rosenblum

Oh, I see waht you mean! Actually, SF/fantasy is a TINY genre...Mystery is MUCH bigger and mainstream his huge.

mary rosenblum

Fads come and go.

mary rosenblum

Fantasy was very tiny for awhile, but courtesy of Harry Potter it is larger than SF now, but still relatively small.

wolf122

Would you send a short story to multiple mags at once, or space them out over a month if you don't hear anything?

mary rosenblum

Read the guidelines, wolf. Most of them say 'no simultaneous submissions'.

mary rosenblum

While you may not get caught doing that, if you do, you compromise your relationship with an editor who was going to publish you. Not good.

mary rosenblum

In other words, the editor sends you a letter and says, wow, good story, I want it.

mary rosenblum

Uh oh. You just sold it to a small press mag!

mary rosenblum

So now you have to write back to this editor and say, 'uh, gee, well, it's already sold'.

mary rosenblum

Don't hold your breath that this editor will buy from you until you are a big name.

mary rosenblum

Now a lot of small press/ezine markets do not have a problem with simultaneous submissions. Just check.

writeaway

I just submitted to Flashquake, they were kind enough to let me know it was received and I would get a response by August.

mary rosenblum

That's nice. The autoreply feature is a very nice one when you're doing internet submissions.

geezer

It doesn't seem right that they can tie up your work for so long

mary rosenblum

OH I know. It is TOTALLY unfair and ahem...many writers do sim subs anyway...

mary rosenblum

Just know that you CAN get dinged for it.

marty

story fiction in magazines

mary rosenblum

What about it, Marty?

mary rosenblum

Try using ask/ and then type your question in your regular send bar.

mary rosenblum

This is our After Hours Forum, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and tonight we're talking about publishing options. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..

owlybear

Hi Mary....when I started my first column I was lucky in that the publisher was my neighbor. I told him I was starting a writing course and he said "Good ..Start writing for the paper... the second paper ran an ad for freelance writers..I called them and the wanted to see a few of my articles... they liked them and now I've had a weekly column there as well for over two years..I still write for both papers... I did have an interview with the second paper so I had to sell writing ability.. they must like my writing cause I'm still there...

mary rosenblum

Thanks, Owly!

mary rosenblum

I'd say it's a matter of watch for opportunities like this or, like Deborah Wood, make an opportunity.

monda

OK, thanks

owlybear

your welcome

pjdksmith

Hello and thank you. I'm 1st time writer looking for tips

mary rosenblum

What tips would you like, pjdk?

mary rosenblum

-)

wingedwarrior24

omit needless words

mary rosenblum

That's a very good tip, winged! Definitely! :-)

mary rosenblum

You know, the best tip I can give is write. Write some more. Write even more.

mary rosenblum

And one thing to keep in mind.

mary rosenblum

The bigger markets...whether you're talking magazine markets or book length publishers...

mary rosenblum

will be slower to respond than small markets...

mary rosenblum

and it's harder to sell to them.

mary rosenblum

If you merely want to see your work in print...wherever!...then go with smaller markets, online 'zines, etc.

mary rosenblum

If you want to create a career as a pro, you really do need to aim for the top of the markets...

mary rosenblum

and you will have to fight your way through that slush pile.

mary rosenblum

But sheer, stubborn, buttheaded determination is still the best attribute you can have as a writer.

mary rosenblum

And if you have something that YOU and maybe your family just want to see in print...a family cookbook, a memoir, then by all means...

mary rosenblum

use one of the inexpensive print on demand for-pay publishers like iUniverse, Publish America, or the like.

mary rosenblum

Know why you are writing, what your goals are, and select the publishers that meet those goals...then be tenacious.

mary rosenblum

Well, this has been a fun Oregon hour! No thunderstorm yet!

mary rosenblum

Do join us for our casual chat on Sunday...we get together here about 5 pm Pacific, 6 mt, 7 central, and 8 pm east coast time.

mary rosenblum

I'll post the transcript of this Forum at Writing Craft: Forum Transcripts.

mary rosenblum

Thanks for coming, all!

mary rosenblum

Have a great weekend!

 

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