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mary rosenblum
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Hello all!
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mary rosenblum
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I hope you're having a good
week and had a fine holiday weekend.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about how to become a good writer in ten minutes! : If you're
new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or
the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen,
or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular
'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question
to reach me.
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mary rosenblum
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Me, I have a cold, courtesy of
my good friend with whom I stayed while I was in Seattle. Sigh.
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mary rosenblum
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Be glad this type of virus
doesn't propagate over the internet!
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mary rosenblum
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I may have to duck out of here
for a couple of minutes...my agent is expecting Tor Books to present their
formal offer for my next SF book today and may call me during the Forum.
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gail
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Ten minutes?!!! I guess I've WAY
over-shot the mak -- it's been years and I'm still not "there"
yet.
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mary rosenblum
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Well, the original request was
said facetiously...but it got me to thinking...
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mary rosenblum
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that we tell people what good
writing includes in workshops and classes...
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mary rosenblum
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but we don't always give much
detail about what you do exactly to get better as a writer...
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mary rosenblum
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so a lot of folks feel as if
they are drowning in 'do this, don't do that'...
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mary rosenblum
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and don't really know what to
do with it all. It CAN seem very overwhelming as you keep getting told 'do
that this way' over and over again.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about how to become a good writer in ten minutes! : If you're
new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or
the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen,
or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular
'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question
to reach me.
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mary rosenblum
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The ten minute part is simply
to indicate that 'getting better' is something you really do in small
accessible steps...
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mary rosenblum
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I personally think of them as
'quantum leaps'...that 'Wow!' moment when suddenly something I kept trying
to do suddenly works and I KNOW HOW TO DO IT.
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mary rosenblum
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And afterward, it seems so
obvious! But it sure wasn't before that 'wow' moment.
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mary rosenblum
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I see a very common mindset in
novice writers...was my own, too, when I first started out!
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mary rosenblum
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And that is the believe that
everybody has a static measure of 'talent'...and it doesn't change...it's
merely a matter of writing the right story and getting that foot in the
door.
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gail
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lol Sorry, I just had to laugh.
You commented about people telling us to "do that this way" over
and over again. But, in my mind, if I'm being told something over and over
again, then I'm not "learning" very well at all! :-D
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mary rosenblum
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Well, actually, what I meant
gail is that you master THIS technique, then you get told, 'now do this
other thing differently'...'this isn't working''....
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mary rosenblum
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so you feel after awhile as if
the bar is always being raised.
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mary rosenblum
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But what really slows down
that 'learning' is the feeling that every story you write has to be the
next Pulitzer winner.
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mary rosenblum
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So you tend to do the same
thing...I'll try it again and get it right this time, I'll try again and
get it right this time....
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mary rosenblum
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and when you get rejections,
you get told 'this is weak', 'that doesn't work'... you can feel that you
are being told your writing ability is not adequate.
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gwanny
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if someone doesnt raise my bar I
will only be mediocre, true
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mary rosenblum
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Well, you know, gwanny, the
people who end up as really good writers raise their OWN bar.
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mary rosenblum
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I'm still raising mine, and
falling on my face when I try to jump that new height the first few times.
:-)
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gwanny
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point taken,,ty
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mary rosenblum
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Most of us are our own worst
critics, gwanny. I have many PUBLISHED works that I'm not particularly
pleased with. Could have been better...should have thought of that.... that
sort of thing.
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smilingsunflower
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I'm finding that writing is all
about asking the right questions about each section of writing to see if
you have what you need. I'm making a writing notebook with questions for
each area...about character, etc.
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mary rosenblum
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Good for you, sunflower. That
is an excellent thing to do.
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mary rosenblum
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And actually, learning to
separate questions from doubts is a big first step.
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mary rosenblum
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It's really easy to end up
thinking..."Is this any good?" and feeling that it is not. That's
a doubt and probably has little to do with the reality of the story.
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mary rosenblum
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When we're in doubting mode,
everything seems awful.
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redneckgirl-7
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What should you do when in
doubting mode?
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mary rosenblum
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This is when a good reader or
two really really counts.
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mary rosenblum
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Find another starting writer
or a very good reader who gives you sound feedback on your stories.
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mary rosenblum
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When all you can see is
'yuck'...give the story to those readers and include a list of the doubts
that are tormenting you at the end...to be read after the story.
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mary rosenblum
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Is my character real? Did you
believe his actions at the climax? Did you really like my world?
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mary rosenblum
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That sort of thing.
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mary rosenblum
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And always the very important
question that you MUST include.
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mary rosenblum
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What were the best things
about this story?
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mary rosenblum
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You need to know your
strengths as well as your weak points.
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writeaway
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How do we get out of the
doubting mode when your rejections give you no hint as to why your ms was
rejected.
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mary rosenblum
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You have to understand that
until you start publishing regularly, rejections are not a tool to help you
improve.
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mary rosenblum
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They are a brusque 'no thanks'
and that is all.
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mary rosenblum
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And they can be dangerous if
they are more than that.
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mary rosenblum
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One editor may reject your
story and tell you that the main character seemed to gentle..
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mary rosenblum
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so you hurry up and change the
story, make the main character a real tough guy...
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mary rosenblum
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and your next rejection is
because the MC is tough, not gentle... even an editor's opinion is only one
opinion...
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mary rosenblum
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get your input from readers,
not editors.
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redneckgirl-7
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Mary I can't think of the word
what do you call it when you
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redneckgirl-7
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go from a chapter to a
background them back to story again?
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mary rosenblum
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Flashback, redneck?
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tkat_2
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Mary, Where did you get your
"motivation" to become a better writer? Did it come from writer
friends or self-determination?
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mary rosenblum
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Oh, goodness, t, it's totally
internal and will drive me until I die.
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mary rosenblum
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My motivation is not simply to
be published...never was.
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mary rosenblum
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My motivation was to touch
readers the way books touched me.
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mary rosenblum
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THAT will always drive me to
get better, reach more readers, be more accessible, more powerful as a
writer.
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gwanny
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I just wanna write for heavens
sake,,
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gwanny
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sorry, just discouraged
today,,,oh tomorrow come!
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mary rosenblum
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Ah, welcome to the real world
of writing, gwanny. You simply get these 'I"m never gonna make it'
days.
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mary rosenblum
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And later, you still get 'em,
they just have new forms...
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mary rosenblum
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"I'm never gonna finish
this book...I'm never gonna write something as good as XXX...I'm never
gonna sell another book... and so on.
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mary rosenblum
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Forever.
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mary rosenblum
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And ever.
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mary rosenblum
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And it doesn't matter how much
success you have!
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mary rosenblum
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You just realize there IS a
tomorrow on the other side of that down time.
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redneckgirl-7
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isit an ok thing to do
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redneckgirl-7
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In my true crime book I started
story in a chapter and then
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mary rosenblum
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Sorry..posted them backward. I
think I lost part of your question, red, but I gather you started..
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mary rosenblum
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and then shifted to flashback.
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mary rosenblum
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Well it can work, but you need
to be careful. At the beginning of a book...
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mary rosenblum
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the reader doesn't know much
yet, so it's easy to confuse 'em with a flashback and you run the risk that
the reader might prefer the 'flashback universe'..
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mary rosenblum
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and quit reading when you
return to your story.
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mary rosenblum
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Might want to put it up as a
prologue?
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about how to become a good writer in ten minutes! : If you're
new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or
the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen,
or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular
'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question
to reach me.
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smilingsunflower
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Mary, you said your writing made
a dramatic leap when you went to a writing retreat for fiction writers in
your interview for WILLAMETTE WRITERS NEWSLETTER. Since I don't have the
bucks, I want to create this experience in an inexpensive way. Ideas?
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mary rosenblum
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A good critique group will
have a similar effect.
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mary rosenblum
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What that writers workshop did
for me...and this ties rather nicely into what we're talking about...is
that it...
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mary rosenblum
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gave me a golden opportunity
and a lot of encouragement to experiment.
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mary rosenblum
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It's easy, when you're only sending
your work off to editors...
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mary rosenblum
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to try too hard. This HAS to
be the winner, the one that sells...
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mary rosenblum
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so you do what you think works
and you do it again and again and again...
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mary rosenblum
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and you don't take risks
because a sale is on the line.
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mary rosenblum
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What I learned to do there was
to 'mess around'.
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mary rosenblum
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I tried things I wouldn't have
written had I been intending to send a story off.
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mary rosenblum
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What did I have to lose?
Nineteen people saying 'yuck', that's all.
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mary rosenblum
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And surprise! I found out I
could do things I probably wouldn't have tried for a long time
otherwise...if ever.
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mary rosenblum
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And it was a lesson I have
used since.
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mary rosenblum
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I write all kinds of stuff.
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mary rosenblum
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If it works, I sell it.
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mary rosenblum
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If it doesn't, I learned
something, and sometimes I can rewrite 'em and sell 'em late...
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mary rosenblum
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later...when I'm better at
this.
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gail
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Those "risks" you
tried, did you submit any of them?
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mary rosenblum
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Sure. Some sold, many did not.
A few have sold recently when I looked back at 'em and realized what the
flaw was.
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gail
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I belong to an on-line writer's
(critique & companionship) group and there's one thing I've noticed
about critiques. While all the writers are fairly consistent in the
"mechanics" of the writing, there is seldom any consensus on the
plot. Opinions seem to be based upon the writer-reader's genre of
preference. How can I gleen "what works" from this context?
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mary rosenblum
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It is hard in a mixed-genre
group like that.
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mary rosenblum
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What works for a SF reader
will go over the head of a non SF reader...
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mary rosenblum
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same with the other genres.
Every genre has its own 'conventions' and readers are used to them.
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mary rosenblum
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By conventions I don't mean
writers conferences but rather style, how much you have to explain, what
you can assume the reader already knows, etc.
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mary rosenblum
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So my expectations from a non
SF reader are different than I would have from a SF reader if I'm
critiquing a SF story.
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mary rosenblum
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In fact, I tend to workshop my
SF stories with other SF writers and my mystery stories iwth Mystery or
mainstream writers.
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mary rosenblum
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Some universals like good
characterization, description, pacing, etc tend to cross genres.
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redneckgirl-7
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How much flashback is to much in
a crime novel mary?
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mary rosenblum
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It's too much when the reader
is no longer sure where or when he/she is...or when it becomes more
interesting than your main plot, redneck. Readers will have to tell you if
you cross that line.
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gwanny
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Assignment 3 is getting to me,I
dont like non f writing.
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mary rosenblum
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Aha...but here is your chance
to take that risk, gwanny, and improve what you do.
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mary rosenblum
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Don't think of it that way.
Think of it this way: What can I get away with for this assignment that
will help me? What do I need to work on?
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mary rosenblum
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What about narrative voice?
That helps with first person, too.
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mary rosenblum
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Okay. I'm going to write a
nonfiction narrative about the misadventures of my neice's wedding day...
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mary rosenblum
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and I'm going to see if I can
make it funny. I'm lousy at humor, so maybe I'll discover something here...
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mary rosenblum
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and I can use it later when I
do a first person story.
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mary rosenblum
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LR is another place where you
can take risks.
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mary rosenblum
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Do things you have never
tried.
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mary rosenblum
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Work on things that you think
you need to improve on.
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mary rosenblum
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Do a totally descriptive
'there and back again' story and see if you can balance rich detail with
action so that the pace doesn't drag.
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mary rosenblum
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Who cares if its publishable
if you learn better how to balance pacing and action...
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mary rosenblum
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and later on, maybe you're
rewrite it and sell it.
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mary rosenblum
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If you approach every piece as
a potential pulitzer winner or a test, you will improve very slowly...
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mary rosenblum
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because you will not try risky
things.
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mary rosenblum
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If you give yourself
permission to mess up...you'll improve a lot faster and save those
'messes'. You'll see the problems and fix 'em later on.
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writeaway
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Right now I'm having difficulty
in getting my story from thought process to typed form. Any suggestions?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, to me, it always feels
like standing on the edge of a cold swimming pool on a hot day. I know I'll
have fun once I get in there...
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mary rosenblum
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but I hate that 'shock' of
jumping into the cold water...so I hesitate.
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mary rosenblum
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Jump in. Just start writing.
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mary rosenblum
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ONly way, write.
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gail
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Would you recommend that I find
out the members' genre preferences and then ask them (only) for a critique?
Or, would that be exclusionary and limiting in the feedback?
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mary rosenblum
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That tends to not work well in
a group setting gail. Just don't give as much weight to what your other
genre writers tell you.
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mary rosenblum
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I never take a groups opinions
equally...
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mary rosenblum
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I know this person never gets
what I'm doing with characters (but he's good with science), and that
person ALWAYS wants more internal monologue, but this person is great at
spotting character weaknesses...
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mary rosenblum
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even if she can't see a plot hole
even if she falls into it!
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mary rosenblum
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So I cherry-pick.
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mary rosenblum
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I listen to this comment,
ignore that one...
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roe
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Just for the record I HATED non
fiction. Had a terrible time with Assignment 3 Since then, thanks to
encouragement from a writing buddy, Speck, I've had over 30 non fiction
articles published Hang in there all of you who don't like it, I think You
don't like it cause you THINK you don't know anything I found out I did
know about stuff after all
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mary rosenblum
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And you don't have to know
anything, actually. :-)_ You just have to know someone who knows something.
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mary rosenblum
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I have friends who are serious
nonfiction freelancers...support themselves.
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mary rosenblum
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They are not experts in
anything at all, not one of 'em (except freelance nonfiction)...
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mary rosenblum
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they are simply good at
writing. They find out the stuff that the editors want, interview a couple
of people, and write it up.
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ling630
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When writing an article piece is
it better to just state facts and write the piece or is it better to have
your opinion in the piece too?
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mary rosenblum
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Ling it depends on what you
are doing.
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mary rosenblum
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The only weakness I see in the
LR course..,.and it's not a big one...is that they let you write
articles...
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mary rosenblum
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before you have chosen a
market.
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mary rosenblum
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You don't do that in the real
world of freelance...
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mary rosenblum
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You write FOR your market...so
if a magazine features a lot of opinion pieces, you offer the editor a
piece that includes your opinion.
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mary rosenblum
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If teh magazine features very
cut and dried how-to pieces...that's what you offer, and you keep your
personal voice or opinions to yourself.
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mary rosenblum
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It entirely depends on which
magazine you want to sell this to.
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gwanny
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ty mary, I am gonna re-write the
N/F and use humor
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mary rosenblum
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Do that, gwanny. It will
really help improve your first person voice, when you use first person in a
story.
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mary rosenblum
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And remember, all you
nonfiction people...
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mary rosenblum
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when you're doing a narrative
piece, create yourself as a STRONG character...
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mary rosenblum
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don't fade into the woodwork.
Decide who you are, make yourself a bit more extreme than you are, and your
narrative piece will stand out from those boring monotones.
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geezer
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Define risky things?
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mary rosenblum
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Writing something you don't
know how to do and have no idea how to sell.
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mary rosenblum
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Experimenting, in other words,
with no certainty of success.
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ling630
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Is it possible to combine non
fiction and fiction together for a piece on epilepsy true experience along
with fictional story line?
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mary rosenblum
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Probably not for the
nonfiction markets, ling. Certainly lots of fiction stories are true
stories that have been fictionalized for dramatic reasons.
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mary rosenblum
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But nonfiction is assumed by
readers to be truth and editors are VERY twitchy about that after the
recent spate of 'made up news'.
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smilingsunflower
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I'm finding that when you learn
about the craft of different types of writing, all your writing improves.
The book on screenwriting I'm reading now, STORY by McKee, has great tips
on creating character and conflict in great depth.
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mary rosenblum
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OH, I strongly suggest that
you write in all genres. It's a great learning experience.
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mary rosenblum
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And you may well find you have
hidden talents you didn't know were there.
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speckledorf
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One thing I found that helps is
to have someone critique my work who is writing at a more advanced level
than I. They see more than those who are on or about the same level with
me.
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mary rosenblum
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Well, yes, that does help.
Just don't make the mistake of believing that just because someone has
published they know EVERYTHING. LOL Remember, YOU are the authority on your
story.
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tkat_2
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AHHH, the old "who you
know" trick. :)
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mary rosenblum
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In nonfiction, that is
everything, tkat. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Really and truely, the nonfic
full time freelancers write in fields they have no personal expertise in...
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mary rosenblum
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oh, many of them do now, but
they started by finding someone whom they could quote.
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writeaway
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Mary on ling's question couldn't
the stroy be fiction, but mc 's problems with epilepsy be true experiences?
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mary rosenblum
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Of course, but that will
publish in the fiction universe, not the nonfiction universe.
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mary rosenblum
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The young reporter who got
into serious trouble...NY Times?... did just that...
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mary rosenblum
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he made up a family in order
to report on the wellfare system, etc.
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mary rosenblum
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He probably was reporting some
very valid realities about the system, but because the family was
fictional...
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mary rosenblum
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and he didn't tell readers
that, he got in SERIOUS trouble and so did his editor.
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mary rosenblum
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In general, people who read
nonfiction WANT reality. They do not want a fictional illustration.
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gwanny
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Unethical, as a reader I want
truth when it says it is truth.
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mary rosenblum
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Exactly. And I agree...it
might have been for good reasons (although I suspect it was for a shot at
the Pulitzer), but it was still unethical.
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tkat_2
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That also happened to someone
who won a Pulitzer Prize. Her family was fictional too.
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mary rosenblum
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Yep...there have been two or
three of those. That's why editors are WAY gunshy now.
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ling630
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Can you have a true story and in
your introduction say the names have been changed for the privacy of their
lives, but who wish their story to be told. Is that fiction or non fiction?
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mary rosenblum
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This is standard in
nonfiction, ling. Most of the stories about violence, crime, drugs, etc...
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mary rosenblum
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that you hear on the news or
read in the paper have renamed those people.
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mary rosenblum
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That is to ensure the safety
of the sources...BUT...you have to be able to name your real source if
needed.... Usually, you include the sources in your query letter to the
editor.
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writeaway
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Could he have done the same
piece for a mag with a statement that the characters were ficticious?
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mary rosenblum
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No. People who read nonfiction
want reality. A REAL family who suffers or succeeds thorugh the welfare
system makes us think about what effect that system has on real people.
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mary rosenblum
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If you make it up....why
should we think the system really has that effect? This is just a made up
story.... a lie, to many people.
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ling630
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So then say if the story is
about me and my family is it fiction or non fiction if I change the names?
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mary rosenblum
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Nonfiction if it really
happened. Just think about how your family is going to react before you
publish it though! LOL
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gwanny
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so, I can be a better writer in
10 min,,,
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gwanny
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if I will write in 10 minute
increments?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, as I said, the ten
minute part is just a metaphor for 'it doesn't take years'...
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mary rosenblum
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But what I mean by that is
change your mindset...that just takes a few minutes.
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mary rosenblum
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Try something new this time.
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mary rosenblum
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Copy someone shamelessly.
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mary rosenblum
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I did that a LOT.
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mary rosenblum
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I would do my darndest to make
a scene sound just like Peter Beagel, James Lee Burke, or Scott Card.
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mary rosenblum
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You're going to sound like
yourself overall, no matter whom you copy...
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...by trying to emulate
someone you think is good...
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mary rosenblum
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you will begin to unravel the
techniques they used to be that good.
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gwanny
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By George, I believe I've got
it! Ty!1
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mary rosenblum
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-)_
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mary rosenblum
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Play with your words...don't
strive for a Pulitzer every time.
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mary rosenblum
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I still do this, even when I
fully intend to publish something.
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mary rosenblum
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If it doesn't work...and
plenty of times I"m not happy with the result...oh well, I learned
something.
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mary rosenblum
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And I have a bunch of these
little oddball stories on file...
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mary rosenblum
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they don't fit any market
right now...
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mary rosenblum
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but once in awhile a new
market will open up and voila! I have a place to send one.
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mary rosenblum
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I have a story in Modern Magic
an anthology coming out soon...
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mary rosenblum
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that was a mainstream magic
realism 'play story'...
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mary rosenblum
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didn't have a market for it
when I finished, but had fun, liked what I did. Filed it.
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mary rosenblum
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A year later, this anthology
opens up. Hey, it fits!
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mary rosenblum
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Write for yourself, don't
write for the market.
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mary rosenblum
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You'll grow much more quickly
and learning to give yourself permission to simply write something to see
if you can do it this way...
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mary rosenblum
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will allow you to stretch your
creative muscles.
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mary rosenblum
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Use that ten minutes to
decide...
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mary rosenblum
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I think I want to work on a
really lush, dark, visual universe.
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mary rosenblum
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I think I want to write a kid
POV...
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mary rosenblum
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I think I want to try a dog
POV...
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mary rosenblum
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I think I want to do a really
bloody fight scene...
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mary rosenblum
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And then do it.
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mary rosenblum
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Not for this magazine or that
one...just to see how well you can make it work.
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gail
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I always feel SO much better
about writing after spending a forum with you, Mary. Thanx! :-D
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mary rosenblum
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Oooh, thanks, gail! I'm
blushing!
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mary rosenblum
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So now you have my official
permission to write stuff you have no intention of selling and have no
market to sell to.,
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mary rosenblum
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Just file 'em when you're
done. And run through that file once a year or so..
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mary rosenblum
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you may well be surprised at
what leaps up and says 'fix this and sell me there!'.
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jr souza jr
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Don't forget one of the
important ten minute lessons--the ten minutes it takes to print the piece,
address the envelope, lick the stamp and send it out
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, but don't feel that you
MUST send out everything you write.
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mary rosenblum
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That's a good way to really
freeze up... (Will this editor like this? Maybe I better not do it that
way').
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mary rosenblum
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Sending out your work is a
very necessary step to success...and sending out your work over and over
again is part of that process...
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mary rosenblum
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and the rejection slips hurt.
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mary rosenblum
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But sometimes it is okay to
play.
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mary rosenblum
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Think about marketing after
you write that 'risky' story.
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mary rosenblum
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You may well surprise
yourself.
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forest elf
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If I have work out at a
publisher that does not accept simultaneous submissions, then I don't send
it to another publisher unitl publisher #1 decides. But is it okay to query
an agent while the book is still with the publisher?
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mary rosenblum
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Absolutely, elf. That is a
great time to query agents...and most agents will accept simultaneous
queries, by the way.
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mary rosenblum
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The simultaneous rule applies
only to other publishers. The publisher would rather you had an agent on
board...
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mary rosenblum
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if they decide to take the
book...that way they don't have to wait while you secure one to work on the
contract.
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mary rosenblum
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Do realize that if you have
the book with a small press publisher, you probably won't find an agent
willing to handle it.
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mary rosenblum
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But the small press houses
generally have fairly simple contracts that don't require an agent.
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mary rosenblum
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hang on .... agent
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mary rosenblum
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Woohoo...
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mary rosenblum
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got a good deal...hardcover
and mass market paperback.
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mary rosenblum
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I'm thrilled.
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forest elf
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Should I mention to the agent
that I have the book out with the publisher ... or not mention it?
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mary rosenblum
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Elf, DO tell your agent that
you have the book in with a publisher...
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mary rosenblum
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tells him you're serious and
you might have saved him a lot of work.
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geezer
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After the symposium on distance
I changed my climactic scene in Lesson 10. I think it improved.
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mary rosenblum
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Good for you, geezer!
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