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mary rosenblum
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Hello all. Welcome to our
Tuesday Forum.
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mary rosenblum
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I hope you all had a drier
weekend than I did! I finished up my fall wood gathering in the serious
rain. Winter has moved in early, here in the Pacific Northwest.
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mary rosenblum
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And I had a very close call
yesterday, that I want to share, because it's something that can happen.
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mary rosenblum
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I have a novelette due on
deadline...needs to be in to the anthology editor next week.
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mary rosenblum
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And I had had a lot of trouble
with the story, had essentially torn it apart and started over from
scratch, was delighted with the final draft.
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mary rosenblum
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I printed out a copy to send
to my reader in Virginia.
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mary rosenblum
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Now I usually print out a copy
for my files, but I was in a hurry to get to the PO and I didn't.
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mary rosenblum
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Forgot to do it later.
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mary rosenblum
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Later on, I saved what I
thought was the final draft under the title name instead of the workign
title filename
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mary rosenblum
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and overwrote my final draft.
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mary rosenblum
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I had no other electronic
copies and my only hard copy was...I sincerely hoped...in Virginia.
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mary rosenblum
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Talk about panic!
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mary rosenblum
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Since I had backed up the file
before I discovered my error, even my backup copies were no help.
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mary rosenblum
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Fortunately, my reader had the
copy and is expressing it back to me.
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mary rosenblum
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My punishment is that I will
have to type 40 pages into the computer.
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mary rosenblum
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I am SO happy to have that
story back intact that I will smile all the way through!
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mary rosenblum
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But it is a lesson.
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mary rosenblum
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Always print out a copy. Even
if you back up, even if you think you're safe, accidents can and do happen.
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mary rosenblum
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Okay, on to our topic today.
:-) Which is foreshadowing and planting.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about foreshadowing and planting clues. If you're new here,
remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word
bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the
ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar
won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach
me.
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tory
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WISDOM is learning from others'
mistakes so we don't have to learn the hard way. Sorry for your hard
lesson, Mary. Thanks for reminding us.
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mary rosenblum
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Well, it's easy to get a bit
lax if you don't have problems and you feel you are 'safe' from accidents,
tory.
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mary rosenblum
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Figured I might as well save
someone else a similar headache.
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mary rosenblum
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As for foreshadowing and
planting clues, this is something you do in all genres of fiction, not just
in mystery...
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mary rosenblum
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although you certainly take it
to a high level there.
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tweaked
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Is there a character limit on
questions?
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mary rosenblum
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If you're using java you get
cut off after a very few words, tweaked.
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mary rosenblum
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try typing ask/ in front of
your question in the regular send bar. That allows you a longer question.
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mary rosenblum
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And you can always send me
questions in sections. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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I'm sorry.../ask...
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mary rosenblum
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Got the slash in the wrong
place!
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cherley
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Mary, I will be going through OR
on 84 tonight.
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mary rosenblum
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Cool, Cherley! I'll wave at
you. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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If you have time, stop at the
Multnomah Falls rest area...it's an easy on/off for trucks and a lovely
falls.
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mary rosenblum
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I see a lot of problems with
foreshadowing and plants of both sides of the 'just right' fence in novice
fiction.
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mary rosenblum
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Either the writer gives the
climax away, or we are totally at a loss when the dramatic peak occurs or
at the end.
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mary rosenblum
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Foreshadowing is hinting to
the reader that a course of later action might take place.
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mary rosenblum
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Planting is the same sort of
thing...you insert an item...say a weapon...or a hint that something might
occur (an explosive outburst of rage) so that...
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mary rosenblum
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when that item or event
appears the reader does not go 'huh?'.
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mary rosenblum
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Where did THAT come from?
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janecj333
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I tend to use foreshadowing to
plant the idea that a character is capable of a specific act, moderate at
first, and extreme in the end
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mary rosenblum
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Exactly jane.
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mary rosenblum
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It is entwined with
characterization.
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mary rosenblum
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While you may KNOW that your
character is capable, say, of an explosive outburst of rage, your reader
needs to be able to see that potential...
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mary rosenblum
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even if you are subtle enough
that the outburst itself surprises the reader.
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tweaked
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Right. Or the reader feels
blindsided.
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mary rosenblum
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Exactly, tweaked.
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mary rosenblum
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And you can make the
foreshadowing obvious, so that suspense builds as the reader expects that
outburst...
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mary rosenblum
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while your POV is oblivious to
the growing threat.
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mary rosenblum
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OR you can make it very subtle
so that the reader discounts it or doesn't really pay attention to that
clue.
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mary rosenblum
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But when the outburst occurs,
readers remember that clue. "Oh yeah, that's right..he hinted about
jail time for his temper...'
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mary rosenblum
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I see a lot of instances where
someone seems to act out of character.
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mary rosenblum
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And I see instances where it
is SO obvious what is going to occur that all suspense is lost and I find
myself 'checking my watch'... 'How much longer until we get there?'
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mary rosenblum
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You use plants the same way.
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mary rosenblum
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If that MC is going to grab
the gun off the manelpiece and shoot the brother in law in the final
scene...
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mary rosenblum
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make sure that gun is already
there!
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...the reverse is true...
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mary rosenblum
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if you put a gun on the
mantelpiece in scene one...be sure someone uses it.
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lore alley
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I have trouble with
foreshadowing. I know that I need to, and sometimes know where I should
plant those hints, but not how much I should say. Is that something that
you pretty much depend on readers to tell you? Or are there ways of knowing
while you're writing?
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mary rosenblum
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Readers help, lore.
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mary rosenblum
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Get yourself a mystery reader.
They LOOK for clues!
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mary rosenblum
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When I write mystery stories,
I always give my stuff to a mystery reader friend. If I can keep her
guessing to the end, I'm home free.
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mary rosenblum
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And there are ways to distract
readers from those plants and foreshadowing bits...
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mary rosenblum
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so that you diminish their
importance if you don't want to alert your reader to the climax...
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mary rosenblum
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and bring them in 'under the
radar' so to speak.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about foreshadowing and planting clues. If you're new here,
remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word
bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the
ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar
won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach
me.
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tory
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Mary, I've heard that before: If
you put XYZ in the scene, make sure to use it (ie, the gun). But how to
find the balance between using everything and maybe just some scene
setting?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, Tory, you have to
consider the importance of the object.
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mary rosenblum
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If that object implies
violence/action/climax...ie a gun, a knife, a sheer cliff right under the
deck outside the bedroom window...
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mary rosenblum
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then readers are going to
assume you've put it there for a reason.
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mary rosenblum
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If that gun, knife, or sheer
cliff is just landscape...use different landscape!
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mary rosenblum
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Use a rack of elk antlers
instead of a gun to dress up the mantelpiece...
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mary rosenblum
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or let the MC mention that the
gun is disabled and can't be fired or is a reproduction for display only.
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tory
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So the crystal vase on a table
might just be for scene--not hitting someone over the head?
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mary rosenblum
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Sure.
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mary rosenblum
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While you can use a vase to
kill someone, most of the time you do not.
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mary rosenblum
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While you may not use a gun to
kill someone, most people don't have them lying around. :-)
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tweaked
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Tell me if I'm way off here. I
think you should try to streamline 'foreshadowing' and 'plants' the same
way you try to minimize all unnecessary elements in your writing.
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mary rosenblum
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It's a bit different here,
tweaked, because you are minimizing them with the intention of hiding them
from the reader...
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mary rosenblum
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because they are quite
necessary...
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mary rosenblum
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and sometimes you are
highlighting them so as to build suspense.
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mary rosenblum
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One way to engage your reader
is to have your POV characeter oblivious to a threat that we readers
perceive.
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mary rosenblum
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You have readers gasping 'no,
don't go there!'.
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tweaked
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OK. I meant keep them tight.
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, they need to be tight,
but not just because you want good writing, tweaked. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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You use foreshadows and plants
as a tool to create plot tension and suspense.
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mary rosenblum
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So you vary them to create the
effect you want.
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mary rosenblum
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Generally, you want to use the
minimal number of words to the greatest effect...that is tight writing.
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mary rosenblum
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But you may want to use MORE
words if you want that foreshadow or plant to stand out.
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telcontar
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I would imagine that getting the
reader aware of something and leaving the POV unaware is a delicate
ballance of "oooh... I know what's gonna happen next" and
"man! this guy is an idiot"
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mary rosenblum
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Absolutely, tel!
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mary rosenblum
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This is very difficult to pull
of without falling into 'Stupid Character Syndrome'.
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mary rosenblum
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I...and most readers...have
very little patience with stupid characters.
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mary rosenblum
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It's much easier if you're
using multiple POV characters in a longer work than it is in a short story.
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mary rosenblum
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But you can get away with a
character giving subtle signs of impending trouble...
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mary rosenblum
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that both your reader and the
POV may overlook.
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mary rosenblum
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Your more aware readers may
note it and think 'trouble coming' and if some do not...
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mary rosenblum
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they'll realize the signal was
there after the climax.
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mary rosenblum
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It's okay for the reader to go
'oh, of course, I should have seen it coming AFTER the climax.
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mary rosenblum
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That is usually what you're
striving for.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about foreshadowing and planting clues. If you're new here,
remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word
bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the
ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar
won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach
me.
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tweaked
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What POV works best with
foreshadowing?
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mary rosenblum
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Third.
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mary rosenblum
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In first person, we know ONLY
what the MC tells us...and so we either know what is going to happen
because the POV does...
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mary rosenblum
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or we have no clue because the
POV doesn't either.
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mary rosenblum
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You can have your MC guess...
"You know, I think Betsy is hiding something. She is acting really
weird...'
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mary rosenblum
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But that's the extent of it.
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mary rosenblum
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And you can still do it, but
it has to be something that the POV wonders about and maybe misconstrues...
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mary rosenblum
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because that POV has to tell
us.
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mary rosenblum
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Mystery is, of course, the
prime example of foreshadowing and clue planting, and you can find
mysteries in both first and third...
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mary rosenblum
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although if you look at the
genre as a whole, way more mysteries are in third than first.
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mary rosenblum
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There's a reason for that. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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You can use internal POV to
foreshadow...
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mary rosenblum
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if your character thinks about
some event in the past and shies away from that thought.
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mary rosenblum
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You alert the reader to
'something in his/her background is relevant here'...
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mary rosenblum
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but you don't have to share it
with the reader right then.
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mary rosenblum
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Or that thought or memory can
be enigmatic...
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mary rosenblum
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something that will make sense
only after your climax.
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mary rosenblum
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You can distract readers from
clues by slipping them in as something much more obvious goes on.
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mary rosenblum
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Think of the sleight of hand
of a magician.
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mary rosenblum
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In one mystery, I had to have
my villain actually tell my MC about the location where he would ultimately
try to kill his victim...
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mary rosenblum
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so that she could look for him
there.
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mary rosenblum
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And I didn't want any readers
to guess he was the perp until the end..
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mary rosenblum
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but if that bit of information
had stood out as important, readers would have guessed instantly that he
might be the villain.
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mary rosenblum
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(Mystery readers have eagle
eyes!)
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mary rosenblum
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So I had him mention that in
the course of a desultory conversation with the MC while was anticipating a
stressful confrontation.
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mary rosenblum
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The upcoming confrontation
SEEMED to be the important focus of the scene and her part of the
conversation was absent minded...
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mary rosenblum
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so I managed to slip it past
readers.
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mary rosenblum
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Later, when she thought of
that place, readers could recall...'oh yeah, he said something about that
secret place way back when'.
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mary rosenblum
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That's sleight of hand.
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mary rosenblum
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Slip in your clue or your
plant while something much more important is going on.
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mary rosenblum
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If the clue is the focus of
the scene, it's like turning a spotlight on it.
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mary rosenblum
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Melanie goes into the bedroom,
opens the bedside drawer and stares at the automatic there.
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mary rosenblum
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Uh oh.
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mary rosenblum
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But if Melanie is turning the
bedroom upside down looking for her lost pearls, yanks open the drawer, and
thinks 'gosh, I forgot Jonathon left that there when he moved out, oh lord,
what if I can't find those pearls...
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mary rosenblum
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and finding those pearls is
REALLY important, readers will skim right over Jonathan's gun.
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mary rosenblum
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But it'll be there when she
needs it.
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mary rosenblum
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Believe me, sometimes you
craft a scene specifically to bury a clue. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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That doesn't mean the scene
should have no other purpose...
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mary rosenblum
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it should still obey the rule
of three...
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mary rosenblum
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but you set it up and shape it
so that you can slip that clue in.
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lore alley
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I read a story once which was
overall very well done, but the author set one of the MC's up to be very
different than what he ended up being. Up until the end the plants seemed
to foreshadow some supernatural event that never happened. I was disgusted!
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mary rosenblum
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Without having read it, lore,
I would guess that it was a case of poor characterization...it's easy to
create a plot puppet...
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mary rosenblum
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that does exactly what the
plot calls for.
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mary rosenblum
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And that's the result.
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geezer
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Rule of three?
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mary rosenblum
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The Rule of Three is what I
call the rule for 'A Good Scene'.
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mary rosenblum
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A good scene should:
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mary rosenblum
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1. Advance the plot
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mary rosenblum
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2. Deepen the characterization
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mary rosenblum
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3. Enrich the world (setting).
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mary rosenblum
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You can include backstory in
the 'enrich the world' aspect of scene.
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mary rosenblum
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You CAN get away with two out
of three (I wouldn't)...but if your scene only does one of the three...work
on it.
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mary rosenblum
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So if you create a scene in
order to plant a clue or foreshadow an event, make sure that scene obeys
that rule of three or...
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mary rosenblum
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readers will see right through
it. (Oh, you only put that there to let us see the gun on the mantelpiece!)
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mary rosenblum
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I catch those all the time.
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mary rosenblum
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Unless you want your readers
to realize that this is a clue, then do not make it the central event in
the scene.
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mary rosenblum
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Make something else the
central event of the scene and the clue just sort of happens also.
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mary rosenblum
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Dialogue is a great way to
foreshadow.
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mary rosenblum
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People give themselves away or
lie and we notice it.
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mary rosenblum
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Hmmm...something's wrong here.
What?
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mary rosenblum
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Later on when that character
does something unexpected, we remember...
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mary rosenblum
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oh yeah. He was lying when he
said that, I remember now.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about foreshadowing and planting clues. If you're new here,
remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word
bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the
ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar
won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach
me.
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mary rosenblum
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Where it really counts is in
the ending.
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mary rosenblum
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An ending begins with the
start of the story...
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mary rosenblum
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and it needs to derive from
what has been revealed by the story.
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mary rosenblum
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If the ending comes out of
nowhere....Superman flies in and saves the day...
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mary rosenblum
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this is what is known as a
deus ex machina end...
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mary rosenblum
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named after the Greek plays
where a god or goddess swooped down on cables to rescue the hero or heroine
in the final scene.
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mary rosenblum
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Not very satisfying to the
reader.
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mary rosenblum
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If the cavalry is going to
arrive in the final scene, we need to see them on the road somewhere,
first.
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mary rosenblum
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And again...
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mary rosenblum
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distraction is the name of the
game..
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mary rosenblum
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If you want that cavalry to
arrive for the end, make the reader think they cannot.
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mary rosenblum
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A river is flooding, they are
bogged down in mud and a week away..
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mary rosenblum
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you can give a logical
explanation of how they DID make it after the fact.
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mary rosenblum
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Just make sure it's a
plausible explanation!
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tweaked
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I hate those endings. It's as if
the author was running out of pages and just wanted to end the story.
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mary rosenblum
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Or more likely couldn't figure
out how to end it, tweaked!
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mary rosenblum
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reunited, you can type /ask in
front of your whole question in your regular send bar...
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mary rosenblum
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that way you can ask a longer
one.
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reunited96
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So what you're trying to say is
that it's like starting at
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reunited96
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the end and working back to the
beginning?
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mary rosenblum
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It can be...
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mary rosenblum
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It's one way to make sure your
end works...or to figure out why your end is NOT working.
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mary rosenblum
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And often, I plot that way.
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mary rosenblum
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I'm doing that now, plotting
my next novel.
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mary rosenblum
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I started with my end.
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mary rosenblum
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I know where I want to end up.
Now how will my characters take us there?
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mary rosenblum
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So I've been working from back
to front and front to back simultaneously. :-)
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tweaked
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Like one of Steven Covey's Seven
Habits. "Begin with the end in mind."
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mary rosenblum
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Now that is one way to do it,
not the ONLY way.
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mary rosenblum
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You can start and see where
your plot takes you...
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mary rosenblum
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but the end needs to derive
from what has gone before.
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mary rosenblum
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Myself, I usually know what I
want to make happen...
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mary rosenblum
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so I often work backward,
planning events that will lead my characters to the climax I want to
achieve.
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mary rosenblum
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It's all a matter of what
works for you.
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...if you are someone who
has to create the story from beginning to end, that's fine.
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gail
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Does foreshadowing always need
to be "accurate?" By this I mean, when writing a mystery and
building up to the murder, when I'm laying the groundwork of characters and
motives, will all my characterizational foreshadowing have to bear fruit of
some kind later on? (I hope this question makes sense to you.)
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mary rosenblum
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It does, Gail.
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mary rosenblum
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Actually, in mystery, you do a
lot of false foreshadowing.
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mary rosenblum
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You want the reader to suspect
someone else.
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mary rosenblum
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Or say you have a villain in
mind and you want to surprise the reader with that person's real nature at
the end...
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mary rosenblum
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you may seem to foreshadow
someone else's bad behavior...
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mary rosenblum
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and then use our expectations
to keep your real perp hidden.
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mary rosenblum
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You can use reader
expectations against them. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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If you give a character a few
unsavory characteristics, readers think, 'oh, not a nice person'...
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mary rosenblum
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and they sort of keep their
attention on this person...
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mary rosenblum
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while your real 'not nice'
person behaves very blandly.
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mary rosenblum
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Stereotypes can be useful
tools...
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mary rosenblum
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No, you do not want to create
stereotypes as characters...
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mary rosenblum
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but if you give your character
a couple of 'stereotype' characteristics...
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mary rosenblum
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your reader will fill in all
the blanks...and missread the character's real nature until you reveal it.
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lore alley
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That works well in limited third
where your POV has preconceived notions about another character that we
slowly realize aren't true.
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mary rosenblum
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Exactly, lore.
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mary rosenblum
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And it can work in first,
where your POV seems unlikeable...
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mary rosenblum
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and we slowly realize this
person isn't polite, but has a solid core of integrity.
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mary rosenblum
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But that's a tightrope to
walk, since you can turn off your reader, too.
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mary rosenblum
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I read one...and I'm blanking
on the title, so don't ask...it'll come to me eventually, sigh...that was
like that.
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mary rosenblum
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It was by a well known writer
and actually a VERY good book (I loaned it and it never came back to me)...
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mary rosenblum
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but the MC was pretty hard to
take. He just wasn't likeable.
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mary rosenblum
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And he turned out to be a very
strong character with a lot of admirable qualities, but I had a hard time
staying with the book long enough to discover that...
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mary rosenblum
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and it did not sell well at
all.
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mary rosenblum
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Too bad.
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telcontar
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like the doctor in House... he's
a jerk, no bedside manner whatsoever... but he does his job and takes the
risks no one else is willing to take, and ends up saving lives...
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mary rosenblum
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I'm not familiar with House,
but that sounds like what I mean, tel.
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gail
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I'm also considering situations
that, on the surface, seem either treacherous or benign through
foreshadowing. I've had some real thrill rides reading books that
contrasted my expectations.
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mary rosenblum
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Exactly, gail.
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mary rosenblum
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That's what 'sleight of hand'
is all about..
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mary rosenblum
|
it is about leading readers to
expect something other than what happens...
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mary rosenblum
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so that you gain that element
of surprise.
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mary rosenblum
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BUT you must have hidden clues
so that they can look back and go 'I should have seen that'.
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mary rosenblum
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But of course, they were so
sure they knew where you were going, they did not.
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gail
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This is one of the most
difficult critiques to offer a writer, too -- I didn't like the MC. Ouch!
:-(
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mary rosenblum
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But it's an important one,
gail.
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mary rosenblum
|
I have used a lot of negative
characters in my fiction...
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mary rosenblum
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and they have to be likeable
enough to hold readers even if that reader doesn't love them.
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mary rosenblum
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It's a fine line to walk.
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mary rosenblum
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And if you fall over into 'I
can't stand him', the writer needs to know it..
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mary rosenblum
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but try to include a 'why',
too.
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mary rosenblum
|
Since you may not be the
reader that writer is speaking to.
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mary rosenblum
|
Ah..
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mary rosenblum
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remembered the book!
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mary rosenblum
|
It was by Martin Cruz Smith,
author of Gorky Park.
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mary rosenblum
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Title is 'Rose'.
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mary rosenblum
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But if you look at Smith's
books, including Gorky Park, none of his characters are warm and cuddly.
:-)
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mary rosenblum
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This one was seriously not.
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janecj333
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I do think that some authors
write with blinders on, not aware that a mc with a single obvious
perversion will ruin the story for his reader if that character is foisted
on us as normal
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mary rosenblum
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That's well said, Jane.
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mary rosenblum
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One of the the dividing lines,
in my opinion, between a pro and amateur writer...
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mary rosenblum
|
is a broader awareness of the
wide range of people who will read your book.
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mary rosenblum
|
If you write for your clones,
you have a very limited audience of people who think and feel just as you
do.
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mary rosenblum
|
But one of the reasons you
learn craft is to make that character and situation accessible to someone
who is not like you...does not think nor see the world the way you do.
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mary rosenblum
|
What is obvious to you will
not be obvious to many readers.
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mary rosenblum
|
Part of craft is learning out
to reach the universals beyond the immediate traits..
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mary rosenblum
|
so that someone a reader might
not really be comfortable with in real life is human and familiar enough to
engage the reader in spite of his/her original reaction.
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mary rosenblum
|
That is skill.
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mary rosenblum
|
If your attitude is 'my way or
the highway' even if it's unconscious at this stage...
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mary rosenblum
|
you are really writing for
yourself, not for readers.
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mary rosenblum
|
And we all write for ourselves
when we begin.
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mary rosenblum
|
Elizabeth Lynn, a fantasy
writer, once said at a workshop that everybody writes for themselves for a
period when they begin...
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mary rosenblum
|
and it is when you really
begin to write for others that you become a pro.
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mary rosenblum
|
And I think she's right.
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mary rosenblum
|
And sometimes you publish the
work you write for yourself. :-)
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mary rosenblum
|
I published a lot of work
while I was still really writing for myself... :-)
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mary rosenblum
|
One of the things that
foreshadowing and planting does is to make those character actions
accessible to those readers who are not you.
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mary rosenblum
|
While a character's behavior
may seem perfectly obvious to you...
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mary rosenblum
|
readers really do not know
that character as well as you do, no matter what your skill level in
characterization.
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mary rosenblum
|
And you need to give enough
clues that even the people who have misread your character a bit can see
the 'why' of the story's high points.
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mary rosenblum
|
REaders are always a valuble
tool here.
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mary rosenblum
|
I cannot tell, even now, if I
have balanced my clues and foreshadowing well enough.
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mary rosenblum
|
I really have to have reader
input...and I am WAY better at this than I was ten years ago!
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janecj333
|
Would you say you were one of
the lucky ones, paid while not yet an 'expert' at your craft?
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mary rosenblum
|
Well, she says immodestly, I'm
not sure it's luck. I was writing well enough and my stories had a wide
enough appeal that I sold them...
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mary rosenblum
|
but it took me awhile to
really write for story rather than address issues of personal interest to
me.
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mary rosenblum
|
I got some very nice awards
and award nominations for those stories, too. :-)
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mary rosenblum
|
They are simply stronger, now.
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mary rosenblum
|
Well, this has been a fun
Oregon hour. :-)
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lore alley
|
What if you are wrting a book
that you want to sell as part of a series, and the later books deal with
bigger issues than the first one. Is it good to plant a lot of hints of
that later conflict that might not even show up in the first book?
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mary rosenblum
|
No, it really isn't, Lore.
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mary rosenblum
|
The editor who considers this
book is looking at THIS book..
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mary rosenblum
|
a lot of 'better story yet to
come' just make editors wait for THAT book.
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mary rosenblum
|
If your readers love this
book, they'll buy the next one without any enticement.
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mary rosenblum
|
Work on making THIS book
dynamite and connecting with readers.
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mary rosenblum
|
Readers are loyal. If they
like your work, they buy your work.
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mary rosenblum
|
A couple of hints are fine...
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mary rosenblum
|
but not enough to be really
obvious.
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mary rosenblum
|
Well, I'll post the transcript
in the usual place: Writing Craft ...Forum Transcripts.
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mary rosenblum
|
Have a good week, all, and do
drop in her tomorrow...
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mary rosenblum
|
same time same place for our
casual chat...no 'question', we just get together and talk writing.
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mary rosenblum
|
See you then!
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