Forum Transcripts

Flash Fiction 9/13/05

Event start time:

Tue Sep 13 12:04:00 2005

Event end time:

Tue Sep 13 13:41:43 2005



Legend:
Questions from the Audience are presented in red.
Answers by the Speaker are in black.
The Moderator's comments are in blue.

mary rosenblum

Hello, all!

mary rosenblum

I hope you had a great weekend.

mary rosenblum

I did. I finished the final revision of my next novel and emailed it back to my editor this morning. That's about all I've done for the last week. :-) Nonstop.

mary rosenblum

But I'm very pleased. David Hartwell, at Tor Books, is by far the best editor I've ever worked with...

mary rosenblum

He doesn't miss a detail in the book, finds every tiny weakness. It has been a very nice partnership.

mary rosenblum

Editors...the ones who really EDIT rather than merely acquire and publish a book...are truely worth their weight in gold.

mary rosenblum

They're rare these days, alas.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer and we're talking about flash fiction. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

mary rosenblum

I had a request for our topic today...flash fiction.

mary rosenblum

It's a good one, because flash fiction is a growing market and a nice way to break into the fiction marketplace.

mary rosenblum

Flash fiction is generally described as short short stories under 2000 words and usually under 1500 words.

tami74

I did a small amount of research over net on the market for flash fiction....any ones you suggest, Mary?

mary rosenblum

There are quite a few, tami.

mary rosenblum

Women's World takes short mystery and romance and pay VERY well for it, although the competition is fierce.

mary rosenblum

The guidelines are posted in New Market listings on the website.

mary rosenblum

And you need to read an example of their mysteries...they want a specific form.

kungfumama

aren't you approaching prose when you write such a short story?

mary rosenblum

A story IS prose, kungfu... as opposed to poetry.

mary rosenblum

Do you mean are you really writing a story?

mary rosenblum

I just gleaned a whole list of flash fiction markets plus a writers newsletter that features them, and I'll post them on the website after I'm done here, in New Market Listings.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer and we're talking about flash fiction. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

kungfumama

No - more like since the word count is so short ... you REALLY have to make all those words work.

mary rosenblum

Of course.

mary rosenblum

First let me define 'prose' for you all. :-)

mary rosenblum

It is not poetry. That's it. It's a general term for words that are not poetry. Stories are mostly written in prose, as is nonfiction...

mary rosenblum

Think of writing in terms of a spectrum that stretches between novel at one end and poetry at the other (disregarding poetry's formal structures).

mary rosenblum

At the novel end, you have a LOT of words and you can get away with words that don't do more than one thing.

mary rosenblum

At the short end of the spectrum...the poetry end...every word must do a LOT for that very short form to work.

mary rosenblum

The shorter the story, the more the choice of words matters.

lore alley

How do you know if something can stand alone as a short story (rather than just a scene)? I've written some short little vignettes - all under 250 words - that seemed stand-alone to me. I know they need a conflict and resolution and I think they have that, but it's not blatant. They're more internal, character-oriented, maybe "literary". More like "a moment in the life of..." rather than something with a really clear beginning, middle, and end (although I think they have those too.) [wow that was long! sorry!]

mary rosenblum

Conflict and resolution can be VERY subtle, lore.

mary rosenblum

In some of my mainstream stories, there really isn't any external conflict at all...merely an internal one.

mary rosenblum

BUT...the litmus test for 'story' is this: Does the character change?

mary rosenblum

If the character does NOT change, it is a vignette.

mary rosenblum

If the character changes then it is a story.

randi-lee

Mary, I have seen most flash fiction referred to as under 1000 words and even under 800. I have problems with flash beacuse I have trouble putting all the description I want doesn't fit into it.

mary rosenblum

There is no 'official definition', but most of the general descriptions use 1500 word...and some short short markets want up to 2000 and others under 1000. Essentially it means 'short short'.

mary rosenblum

And you simply cannot put in 'all the description you want'. :-)

mary rosenblum

There's the challenge and it's one that will really benefit you as a writer!

mary rosenblum

Make one word do everything that those 25 words of description did.

mary rosenblum

And I will tell you as someone who came to novel form from the short story, that learning to write well in short form is the best thing you can do for your novel, later on.

mary rosenblum

Your novel will be tight and powerful, prose-wise, because you know how to make every word count.

mary rosenblum

You won't have a lot of verbal fog to obscure the power of your scenes.

lore alley

is there a market for 250 word vignettes? :-)

mary rosenblum

Sure. I have severa markets in front of me that only list maximum word counts, no minimums.

mary rosenblum

And you see a lot of vignettes in flash fiction. :-)

mary rosenblum

It doesn't have to be a story, but if it IS a story, it will stand out.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer and we're talking about flash fiction. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

randi-lee

I feel that like many novellas I have read, like much flash fiction I have read. Leaves the reader wanting more of a story.

mary rosenblum

Well, not everyone likes short stories, randi.

mary rosenblum

Short stories are like sumi paintings...the Japanese brush stroke paintings, where a few deft strokes suggest a mountain, waterfall, and pool.

mary rosenblum

You don't SEE that entire landscape, just the suggestion of it with those few strokes.

mary rosenblum

The novel is the detailed landscape, the short story merely suggests that landscape.

mary rosenblum

You cannot package a novel into a short story length.

tension

What is the difference between literary and mainstream for flash fiction?

mary rosenblum

Tension that is a VERY fuzzy boundary and there really IS no solid definition for 'literary'.

mary rosenblum

Essentially, 'literary' fiction implies a strong stylistic component...it is HOW the piece is written that matters, not so much what is included.

mary rosenblum

Mainstream simply means stuff that does not fit into any genre.

mary rosenblum

It's not a mystery, it' s not SF, etc.

mary rosenblum

It does blur into fantasy in magic realism.

mary rosenblum

I cross that line back and forth.

kitfox_starchild

Is it possible to have many events take place without the story seeming choppy or rushed?

mary rosenblum

Unlikely in very short form, kitfox. You won't have the words to make smooth transitions. BUT...you can make that choppy pace PART of the story.

mary rosenblum

Make that style work FOR you.

randi-lee

So would mainstream be something that can contain murder, mystery, erotica, etc. in it?

mary rosenblum

Sure. As I said, the line is blurry. But most mainstream stories contain at least one element you mentioned. Otherwise they'd be boring. :-) It's like romance.

mary rosenblum

If romance IS the story, it's Romance.

mary rosenblum

If you have romance but it is not the main story, then it is mainstream...or mystery or sf, or what have you. But not a Romance story.

mary rosenblum

Genre definitions are only guides for bookstore owners so they can put books on the right shelf for the right readers to find.

mary rosenblum

As we get away from brick and morter bookstores, I suspect genre definitions will begin to blur and fade even more.

ling630

Can you give an example of one word of description that would get rid of 25 words to give us an idea of what types of words we are looking for. Thank you.

mary rosenblum

Sure ling.

mary rosenblum

It's like this...say you're describing this old stone house at the end of a lane...

mary rosenblum

and you describe the steep roof, the gargoyle downspouts, the gray stones patched with lichen...

mary rosenblum

the deep windows with their leaded glass windows, the heavy wooden doors bound with wrought iron.

mary rosenblum

You can say ...the transplanted castle...or the mutated castle.... and give the reader the same sense of what it looks like.

mary rosenblum

No, the reader will not see those specific details you otherwise would have listed...

mary rosenblum

but if they do not matter to the story, if they are only to create ambience then a looming castle will do the same thing in FAR fewer words.

mary rosenblum

The thing that gives new writer fits is that they want to make the reader see all the very cool things THEY see...

mary rosenblum

and that takes a LOT of words.

mary rosenblum

The shorter the story, the more you give the reader the power to help create the story.

mary rosenblum

The less control YOU the writer have.

mary rosenblum

You control the really really important points, the ones that MUST be there in order for the story to work...

mary rosenblum

and then you get the reader build the world to suit herself/himself.

t green

Now that's a horror story... The Death of the Brick and Mortar Bookstore... where would i go to get my coffee and magazine fix on a lazy afternoon?

mary rosenblum

Well, I think we'll always have them as a place for book lovers to gather and drink coffee...

mary rosenblum

but I suspect the big chains will go away, leaving the independents that also serve as coffee houses, gathering places, and don't depend on volume sales.

mary rosenblum

The big chains, I will bet you, will market online.

mary rosenblum

At least predominantly.

kitfox_starchild

Is it better then to give less description in longer stories as well?

mary rosenblum

Depends on what purpose that description serves, kitfox.

mary rosenblum

It's not a one size fits all answer.

mary rosenblum

If the description is a big part of the story...look at Tolkien for an example...then you need it.

mary rosenblum

If it's just scene setting, then brief, powerful description keeps the story moving along more briskly.

mary rosenblum

And in short shorts, minimal description is almost necessary...the minimum that will work for that story, that is.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer and we're talking about flash fiction. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

randi-lee

just wondered I never have just one thing in my stories, even my shorts or flash. I usually have murder and maybe romance and erotic.

mary rosenblum

The more dramatic elements the better, randi...as long as they work together and don't compete.

lore alley

Do you know some magazines that publish literary/mainstream flash fiction?

mary rosenblum

Yep. Gonna publish a whole bunch on New Market Listings soon as I get done here.

mary rosenblum

Would have had it up already, but i had to get the novel revision off to my editor this AM and ran out of time.

randi-lee

actually the big chains market online now.

mary rosenblum

I know...and they'll give up on most of their stores before long, I suspect. Bookshelf space is WAY too costly.

mary rosenblum

AND...we'll develop more complex and accurate search mechanisms for finding books that we individuals want. :-0

ling630

What exactly is flash fiction? Do you have an example?

mary rosenblum

A LR Assignment one is flash fiction, ling.

mary rosenblum

It is simply a story under 2000 words. IT is a length definition only.

janecj333

Can you give examples of stories in which the character doesn't change, and the story still works?

mary rosenblum

There are some, jane.

mary rosenblum

Although you can find the implicaiton of at least SOME character change...

mary rosenblum

but it's very minimal. That's sort of the definition of a plot driven story.

mary rosenblum

And actually, if you look at O Henry's stories...

mary rosenblum

the characters mostly do not change, the READER"S perspective changes when he/she reads the end.

mary rosenblum

The Leaf is a good example of that.

mary rosenblum

The characters themselves don't really change, but at the end, we realize we have been seeing one character incorrectly and that changes the story.

tension

Isn't the overally descriptive/introspective writing whats makes a piece "Literary"?

mary rosenblum

I wouldn't say that is the definition, tension. While a lot of literary fiction is very descriptive, so is a lot of fantasy and mainstream and equally introspective at least in mainstream.

mary rosenblum

Read some of the university literary magazines.

mary rosenblum

You'll find a LOT of range and as I said, this is a very loosely defined genre...

mary rosenblum

but you'll also find as much focus on style as you find in poetry.

lore alley

I see flash fiction as boiling down a moment or two in time to their essence. Almost like poetry. The reader lives that moment, doesn't even notice words on the page.

mary rosenblum

But for many...and in my opinion the more successful...flash fiction stories, a story is implied.

mary rosenblum

Back to the iceberg metaphor again (my favorite :-))...

mary rosenblum

We see the tip of the iceberg in the story, we know the rest is there, under water, and we imagine it.

trip20

so can we say 'implied knowledge' is necessary in flash fiction? i.e so choice of words is important and mutated castle may not be a good example? or is it?

mary rosenblum

Implied knowedge is very important which is why the word choice is so much more critical than it is in a longer form, trip.

mary rosenblum

Many words carry a wealth of nuance... monastary.

mary rosenblum

That implies not just a building but a population, way of life, sense of religion of some sort.

mary rosenblum

By finding words that do two or three things...

mary rosenblum

perhaps show an object, create a tone, and add nuance...

mary rosenblum

you can do a lot with very few words and it's a GREAT execise.

kungfumama

So we are implying a much larger story?

mary rosenblum

Nearly always.

mary rosenblum

To completely cover an entire story in those few words implies a very very small story. :-)

mary rosenblum

By giving us that vivid iceberg tip we get a large story.

mary rosenblum

I have noticed that a lot of published flash fiction implies an ending that takes place in the future.

mary rosenblum

But the resolution is left to the reader and is often abiguous...could be the lady or the tiger. :-)

mary rosenblum

So if you like that kind of ambiguous end...write short!

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer and we're talking about flash fiction. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

lore alley

Poetry can tell a story too. :-) It's just very concentrated.

mary rosenblum

Of course. It's the ultimate end of that spectrum...flash fiction is just this side of it. :"-)

randi-lee

so saying an ancient gothic castle or even just gothic castle works too.

mary rosenblum

If that's what works best to portray the image you need, then it does, randi.

mary rosenblum

AGain, there is no one size fits all...it has to be the best choice for THIS story.

geezer

Would it be appropriate for the author's voice to tell the reader how the story ends?

mary rosenblum

If it worked...sometimes we like to wonder. :-) While we all grumble about that "Lady or the Tiger' story, we all remember it. :-)

kitfox_starchild

Can you still have a satisfactory conclusion if the PoV character dies?

mary rosenblum

Sure. Doesn't mean it's easy to do, but lots of POVs die in the end of books. Look at Shakespeare's tragedies. Nobody is left standing in Hamlet! :-)

mary rosenblum

BUT...

mary rosenblum

just because it HAS been done and CAN be done, doesn't mean that it will work for you 'just because'...YOU have to put the work into the story to MAKE it work...

mary rosenblum

because most of us do not want that POV we care about to die.

mary rosenblum

It's your JOB to MAKE it satisfying.

mary rosenblum

And 'so and so did it' is not a reason.

ladybug

So, in FF the reader is engaged by using his or her imagination to fill in the blanks, per se?

mary rosenblum

You got it, lady...as is the case with ALL fiction (and why, in my opionion, the visual media will never replace prose stories). We readers share the creation of this story.

randi-lee

ezines and downloadable books from epublishers are getting very popular and many take smaller than novella size books. The ezines, many like to stick to flash or short shorts.

mary rosenblum

Yes, randi.

mary rosenblum

Looking over my list, three paying markets are all ezines...

mary rosenblum

That's part of the reason for the expanding market.

lore alley

Mary, can you give some advice on how to write a strong ending for a short short? (I read two shorts in a well-respected magazine the other day and was very disappointed with what I thought were weak endings.)

mary rosenblum

Many short shorts DO have weak endings. It's hard to complete a story with a strong ending in few words...

mary rosenblum

they're not ALL shining examples of strong flash fiction, even if they are published!

mary rosenblum

You probably do best with an internal conflict...that's typically what I use, but then I'm a character writer anyway, so that's usually the case no matter what the length. :-)

mary rosenblum

If your character gains insight that resolves his/her problem, the story concludes at the end.

mary rosenblum

James Van Pelt writes nice flash fiction and often his stories end with something happening that implies a resolution (often dark) to come later.

katnj

Would you say that flash fiction is a growing market?

mary rosenblum

Yes, it is, and I think that's because of the growing interest in online zines.

mary rosenblum

Doesn't pay you much, but it CAN get you some career attention depending on where you publish it.

mary rosenblum

Jay Lake, former editor of Polyphony and winner of the John Campbell Award has pretty much stuck to short shorts for his entire career so far...

mary rosenblum

and has published something like 100 or better short short...

mary rosenblum

HOWEVER...he is finding that it has a 'career ceiling' and for a career as a speculative fiction writer, he really is going to have to write longer.

kitfox_starchild

Some magazine's prefer or only accept stories from published authors, do poetry and flash fiction count?

mary rosenblum

All magazines perfer stories from published authors, very very few magazines ONLY accept fiction from published authors. :-) All editors want to discover the next Stephen King. LOL

mary rosenblum

And if you start 'at the bottom' sending to magazines that only publish unpublished or unknown writers, what if your work would have sold to the best? You won't know.

mary rosenblum

Start at the top markets and work down.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer and we're talking about flash fiction. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

randi-lee

I have ended many of my shorts by making the ending obvious, the person is dead. But in some respects I made it sound like the ghost would not return because he got what he wanted but you could wonder about it too.

mary rosenblum

That's one way of doing it.

trip20

could you consider a scratching on the wall of Auschwitz stating 'and the hero triumphs' the ultimate flash fiction? as this accomplishes what we try to do in 2k with four words?

mary rosenblum

Sure...although it's hard to deliver that wall to readers...costs a lot to ship. :-)

mary rosenblum

Actually, I was in a six week long writers workshop (bootcamp for writers) back when I was just starting out and we had an internal contest...who could write a complete story with beginning/middle/end conflict/resolution with the fewest words.

mary rosenblum

We were getting down to under twenty.

mary rosenblum

As you can imagine we were spending a LOT of time choosing the right words, LOL

mary rosenblum

In essence it was probably more prose poetry than prose...length definition again! :-)

mary rosenblum

The trick with very short fiction is to keep your plot very very small...

mary rosenblum

think of a microscope. You focus IN not out.

mary rosenblum

YOu are going to have a darned hard time having someone take over the country in 1000 words.

mary rosenblum

Or even show a marriage falling apart, say.

mary rosenblum

BUT you can show a young teen resolving a lifelong conflict with DAd in 1000 words.

mary rosenblum

That is a small and intimate conflict and resolution.

mary rosenblum

They're trout fishing, dad is picking on son AGAIN and son knows he's about to take off and never look back.

mary rosenblum

Something happens, and son suddenly sees a crack in his Dad's 'perfection'...realizes that he's just as flawed as son.

mary rosenblum

Maybe now he won't go.

mary rosenblum

The implication is that he will not run away, that he will stay and ultmately he and Dad will work things out.

mary rosenblum

But you can easily do that story in 1000 words.

mary rosenblum

YOu have the internal conflict...son's anger at his dad...and the small external conflict of the fall, mistake, whatever causes Dad to reaveal his own weakness or fear.

mary rosenblum

And your resolution. Son realizes Dad is more like him than not.

lore alley

wow! under 20???? you've given me something to aspire too! :-)

mary rosenblum

There you go. :-)

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer and we're talking about flash fiction. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

randi-lee

Mary this is an ending from one of my short stories can you tell me if this ending is too weak ? The next morning they found Lenore's cloak caught on the fence. Once again John Trelawney claimed another woman. Only this time, it was his Lenore.

mary rosenblum

WEll, even without knowing the story, it's a conclusive ending...clearly this Trelawney has somehow or in some way taken Lenore.

mary rosenblum

Is it a weak ending? Dunno.

mary rosenblum

A weak ending is one that does not satisfy the main conflict.

mary rosenblum

And a weak central conflict is going to create a weak ending, too.

mary rosenblum

A strong central conflict that is not resolved gives you a weak ending.

mary rosenblum

Sometimes writers miss the real strength of the story and that stronger conflict is ignored.

mary rosenblum

So the ending doesn't really satisfy it.

lore alley

What makes a strong central conflict? ('nother topic I know!)

mary rosenblum

Well, it is....how about for the Friday Forum? :-)

mary rosenblum

But a strong conflict is one that is important to your characters.

geezer

I have trouble finding titles for SS. Any idea how to come up with an appropriate title for FF?

mary rosenblum

Aaak...titles!!!!

mary rosenblum

(Took me months to come up with one for my novel)..

mary rosenblum

Well, no help for you there, geeze. Titles either spring instantly to mind for me or I struggle for 'em.

mary rosenblum

Usually, I either try to find something to reflect the theme of the story...

mary rosenblum

or I pick something that resonates with an important element of the story.

lore alley

Friday sounds good to me! thanks Mary!

mary rosenblum

Will do, lore. :-)

randi-lee

I have titles and then build my story around them.

mary rosenblum

That's a good way to do it. Happens to me occasionally.

cbl

Who publishes flash fiction?

mary rosenblum

I'm going to post some flash fiction publishers on the website in New Market Listings after, cbl...

mary rosenblum

www.storyhouse.com publishes it in all genres AND essay.

mary rosenblum

espressofiction.com also does.

mary rosenblum

Storyhouse pays well, espressofiction at least pays something.

mary rosenblum

There are a bunch of short short contests.

mary rosenblum

Writers Digest is now taking entries for their contest...up to 1500 words. But they have a 12 entry fee.

mary rosenblum

December 1 deadline.

lore alley

For a title, I often use a name from the story, if the MC is a very strong character, or words from the story itself

mary rosenblum

Names tend to be poor titles, lore.

mary rosenblum

Enigmatic titles are your very first hook to snag a reader.

randi-lee

www.runesmag.com publishes but does not pay

mary rosenblum

Thanks randi.

mary rosenblum

I'll also be posting the URL for an online flash fiction magazine.

mary rosenblum

They list new markets and contest all the time. It's free.

randi-lee

I did the three day novel contest on labour day weekend, it was not easy but it was fun. It should be called novella contest.

mary rosenblum

Good motivations to write, randi. :-)

mary rosenblum

I highly recommend flash fiction.

mary rosenblum

It is an EXCELLENT writing exercise and if you publish some of it..wayhey...clips!

geezer

Is this enigmatic enough? "An Anagale Sang"

mary rosenblum

Sounds like a SF story, geeze. :-)

randi-lee

I actually started writing shorts because I was used to do longer stories and novellas. I wanted to be flexible and I found poetry and haiku helped me with writing shorts.

mary rosenblum

Let me give you an example of what writing short short will do for you.

mary rosenblum

First of all, your novel lenght works will simply read 'tighter' because you won't be sloppy with your prose.

mary rosenblum

In my novel that will be published next year, my editor needed me to remove 3000 words in order to keep from having to raise the price of the hardcover . BUT...we both agreed that no scenes could be cut out..it was already VERY tight.

mary rosenblum

So I took out a grand total of 6000 words simply by finding a tighter way to do bits of description etc.

mary rosenblum

I'm good at that because I write a lot of short fiction .

mary rosenblum

It's a skill you learn by doing.

mary rosenblum

And remember..

mary rosenblum

when you're breaking in, you will be competing with other novice writers on that editor's desk..

mary rosenblum

and if your writing is tight and polished with no flab...you'll get picked over others that are similar but not as tight.

mary rosenblum

A lot of novice writers feel that editors 'don't want unpublished writers'.

mary rosenblum

But if your plot structure is good, you have REAL characters, and your prose is tight and polished...

mary rosenblum

the editor will know you're going to make it as a pro and will be inclined to buy you 'first'.

mary rosenblum

Most of us are very loyal to that editor who gave us our first break. :-)

mary rosenblum

Short shorts will dramatically improve that 'polished and tight' aspect of your prose and will help you a lot in learning how to plot a short story.

mary rosenblum

Believe me, when you sit down to write something say 5000 words long, you'll feel as if you have a novel's worth of room! :-)

janecj333

are we really competing with others who write 'similar' work?

mary rosenblum

Of course. Whom else would you be competing with?

mary rosenblum

Let me explain how an editor chooses stories.

mary rosenblum

You look at the pro submissions first...their names will sell the magazines so they're the most desirable.

mary rosenblum

But not all pro subs will be good. WE get rejection slips, too, folks.

mary rosenblum

And the editor wants GOOD pro stories.

mary rosenblum

Once the issue is pretty well filled with good pro stories, the editor DOES look through the 'semi pro pile'.

mary rosenblum

This one has the people who have just broken in, have been in a well known workshop, have been recommended by a writer the editor knows, etc.

mary rosenblum

AND...

mary rosenblum

they contain YOUR stuff...the stories that are from unpublished but are written professionally and caught the reader's eye.

mary rosenblum

The editor fills in the issue with these stories. This is your competition.

janecj333

in my stint as a lit mag guest editor, the work we accepted was outstandingly different, and that's why it was chosen

mary rosenblum

Same thing.

mary rosenblum

Most lit mags probably get a much smaller submission than your average commercial magazine...we're talking about 1000 submissions a week.

mary rosenblum

So there is a LOT more sorting.

mary rosenblum

AND most lit mags don't depend on sales for funding. :-)

mary rosenblum

In a commercial magazine, sales matter, as they do in the book market.

mary rosenblum

so a story has to appeal to the subscribers of the magazine, the people who will buy the anthology.

mary rosenblum

The reality of sales figures is one that drives the book length publishing world and the commercial magazine market in both fiction and non.

cbl

submit again. Is this usual or the run-around?

mary rosenblum

YOu mean you got a rejection that asked you to submit again?

mary rosenblum

That's real.

mary rosenblum

Believe me, the LAST thing an editor wants is MORE unusable slush.

cbl

No the editor had my story for 1 yr, won't return it, says

cbl

if I want it I may never submit to his mag. again

mary rosenblum

What? Sounds as if he lost it.

mary rosenblum

I'm not sure i understand what is going on here, but he cannot publish it without some sort of consent from you...

mary rosenblum

If you're concerned, I would send a registered letter stating that you withdraw the story from consideration.

mary rosenblum

That cements the 'you can't publish this' legality.

mary rosenblum

And send it out elsewhere.

mary rosenblum

Nowadays, most of us send in disposable copy...

cbl

Says he will destory story and I'm not to submit again .

mary rosenblum

Well, it's just paper, cbl...Surely you did not send him an original with no copies?

geezer

Should you always send a withdrawal by registered mail?

mary rosenblum

No. This just sounds so weird.

mary rosenblum

Registered simply means you have proof he got the letter.

mary rosenblum

cbl, I hope you did not send an only copy through the mail...

cbl

No it was just a copy.

mary rosenblum

Then who cares? Let him recycle it. Just send the story to another market and don't send to this one again.

mary rosenblum

I send in ms marked 'disposable'.

mary rosenblum

If the editor doesn't buy it I WANT him to destroy it. Costs too much postage to ship it home!

ladybug

Or certified with return receipt?

mary rosenblum

Yeah, but these are expensive. This is not your usual scenario.

mary rosenblum

The editor is acting unprofessionally...but there is no license required to become an editor. :-)

mary rosenblum

So let him toss it and cross him off your 'submission' list.

trip20

Wouldnt they assume it was disposable, without saying it?

mary rosenblum

Oh, lordy no!!!

mary rosenblum

The nightmare is that they might destroy an original.

mary rosenblum

If you send in a ms without return postage and do NOT say clearly on the ms that it is disposable they will treat it as a submission without return postage.

mary rosenblum

ie they won't accept it.

randi-lee

I think most people would burn their stories onto cd's so they would always have the original

mary rosenblum

Anybody who trusts their original ms to the US mail should have their head examined. LOL

mary rosenblum

I was sent four ms for a workshop prior to the last writers conference. I have NO idea where they went. Not to me.

cbl

I sent a SASE as they request and a postcard for receipt

mary rosenblum

I suspect this is a clash between you and the editor, cbl, and I don't think I understand what is actually going on, but why waste any more time on it?

mary rosenblum

He had his chance, he didn't buy the story, send it elsewhere and dont submit to him anymore.

mary rosenblum

I doubt he'll treat anything else of yours favorably, so don't waste the postage. Save yourself the aggravation.

mary rosenblum

There are a ton of other markets out there.

mary rosenblum

And a year is a very long time for a short short to languish.

mary rosenblum

Now if the payoff is worth it...I'll let it sit.

mary rosenblum

Storyhouse.com was taking about a year to respond, but then they pay well and you get great coffee along with the check. LOL

mary rosenblum

So they can keep my stuff for a year, no problem.

randi-lee

I was supposed to submit to an editor but after I saw him come into chat and scream at one of his authors I decided I would not put up with that and didn't submit.

mary rosenblum

One of the good things about conferences is that you can meet editors.

mary rosenblum

Wow, we've run over our Oregon Hour!

mary rosenblum

I'd better get to work...got a novelette to finish on deadline since I'm done with my novel!

mary rosenblum

See you all tomorrow for our casual chat...same time same place.

mary rosenblum

I'll post the transcript of this in the usual place...

mary rosenblum

Writing Craft: Forum Transcripts.

mary rosenblum

And i'll post those markets in New Market Listing.

mary rosenblum

See you all!

 

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