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mary rosenblum
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Hello, all
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mary rosenblum
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I hope you had a great
weekend.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about beginnings. If you're new here, remember that you need
to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the
red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon
in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can
also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
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mary rosenblum
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I wanted to talk about
beginnings today.
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mary rosenblum
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It's a topic we've covered
before, but a lot of novice writers find that beginnings are the toughest
part of any story.
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mary rosenblum
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And they are.
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mary rosenblum
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Especially if you're writing
in the fantasy/sf universe, or if you mainstream story takes place in an
unfamiliar location...
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mary rosenblum
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where you need to set up the
scene for the reader.
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mary rosenblum
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And of course, even if you
story takes place in Mainstreet USA, there is always the problem of how
much backstory to include.
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mary rosenblum
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Readers need to know
who/what/where/when of course.
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mary rosenblum
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Who is the character here,
what is going on, when is this taking place, and where is this taking
place.
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mary rosenblum
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The most common novice mistake
is to try and do all this BEFORE the first plot element occurs.
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mary rosenblum
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Now in novel form, you can do
this.
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mary rosenblum
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Your first chapter can be an
introduction that sets up those four elements and introduces the first plot
element by the end of the chapter...
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mary rosenblum
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although, I find that you have
a much stronger start if you introduce your first plot element as early in
the chapter as possible.
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mary rosenblum
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Or even introduce a major
subplot element.
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mary rosenblum
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But in a short story, you
really need to introduce your first plot element on the first manuscript
page if possible..
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mary rosenblum
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which means within the first
100 - 150 words. That can be a real challenge.
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mary rosenblum
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One thing to realize is that
readers are willing to wait.
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mary rosenblum
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Remember that fiction is
interactive, unlike TV or movies or plays.
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mary rosenblum
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While we give the reader lots
of pieces of the jigsaw puzzle that is our story...
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mary rosenblum
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we allow readers to fill in a
lot of blank space with pieces they create.
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mary rosenblum
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The character my reader
creates won't be quite the same as the one I see in my mind's eye...neither
will the landscape, the rooms...
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mary rosenblum
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they'll be close enough...or
should be...so that I don't totally jolt the reader out of my story...
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mary rosenblum
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when Reader realizes the male
character he saw is actually a girl! :-)
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mary rosenblum
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But our two versions of that
girl don't have to be identical and should not.
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mary rosenblum
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By allowing readers to invest
in this universe along with us, we give that reader a personal stake in our
universe and the story becomes theirs as well as ours...
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mary rosenblum
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which makes it much more
powerful, potentially, than a visual tale, where everything is controlled
by the producer.
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mary rosenblum
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Because of that, readers are
willing to take those puzzle pieces one at a time and build the picture.
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mary rosenblum
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You don't have to complete the
whole thing and THEN begin the story.
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mary rosenblum
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And beginnings are nothing
more than a balancing act of enough versus too much detail.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about beginnings. If you're new here, remember that you need
to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the
red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon
in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can
also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
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mary rosenblum
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Start out by asking yourself:
what MUST my reader know in order to understand this story.
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mary rosenblum
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What MUST my reader see in
order to understand this scene.
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mary rosenblum
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We don't have to know all the
details of who and where, but we need to know enough that we aren't
distracted by a search for meaning.
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tellastory
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So is it okay to have more
telling at the beginning?
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mary rosenblum
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Not at all, tell.
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mary rosenblum
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Your first couple of
paragraphs are really critical, in a short story.
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mary rosenblum
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YOu need to hook the reader
instantly (and that's what sells the story to an editor...)
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mary rosenblum
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Editors routinely reach for
the rejection slip when they stop reading...
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mary rosenblum
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so the minute the story fails
to engage them...it's all over.
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mary rosenblum
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Readers tend to stop reading
at that point...and if they continue...
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mary rosenblum
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they may not read your next
story.
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redhead
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We should try to grab the reader
without insulting their ability to figure things out, right?
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mary rosenblum
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Exactly.
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mary rosenblum
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Don't spoon feed your readers,
but give them enough puzzle pieces that they can put the story together on
their own.
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mary rosenblum
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For example...I just worked on
a really excellent SF story by one of my students.
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mary rosenblum
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And the story is very
saleable...but he'd be rejected by any editor who saw it...
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mary rosenblum
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because his opening simply
didn't give us a visual where.
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mary rosenblum
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WE had lots of SFnal terms and
nothing to give us a sense of what we were looking at.
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mary rosenblum
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Once you got beyond this
opening, the story was great.
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...nobody was gonna get
beyond the opening.
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christopher dale
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How important is it to hit them
in the first sentence for a novel?
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christopher dale
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In my novel, of which will
(HONESTLY) start being rewritten, I am moving chapter 6, the murder, to
chapter one. It takes the first full paragraph to really get there. The MC
sitting tryingto wrok, dorrbell rings, goes and looks in peep-hole, only
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christopher dale
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sees back of head. Opens door,
and THAT's when it starts byt the antagonist turning around...
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mary rosenblum
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That sounds like a nice strong
start to me, Chris.
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mary rosenblum
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You are starting with a strong
plot element, as long as that person isn't just delivering the drycleaning.
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mary rosenblum
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It sounds as if your 'where'
isn't an alien environment, so we can wait to find out what your MC is
doing, obviously we'll find out through him what the import of the person
on the doorstep is...
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mary rosenblum
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and you can begin to fill in
backstory with his thoughts or dialogue.
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christopher dale
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Oh he's delivering something
alright.. :-) The murder of the MC's entire family...
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mary rosenblum
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So you drive the story very
strongly forward.
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mary rosenblum
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That sounds like an idea start
to me.
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mary rosenblum
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The dramatic action of the
murder is going to carry readers forward strongly and nobody will need to
know much of anything until afterward.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about beginnings. If you're new here, remember that you need
to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the
red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon
in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can
also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
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seigfried007
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but what if you put too little
in--esp with sci-fi/fant? you can't 'tell' people what these item/races are
because your character isn't going to think about it...
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mary rosenblum
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Exactly, seig.
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mary rosenblum
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And that is where my student
ran into trouble.
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mary rosenblum
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He had the MC doing something,
but because his description simply wasn't there...we didn't have a clue
what these words meant...
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mary rosenblum
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and thus had no clue what we
were supposed to see.
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mary rosenblum
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He fixed it admirably by the
way. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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And all he did...and what I do
every single time I start a SF/fantasy story that is not set...
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mary rosenblum
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in a recognizable location...
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mary rosenblum
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is to have the characters
DOING things that illustrate the environment.
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mary rosenblum
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It means thinking about a
course of action for that first scene that fills in all the blanks that
MUST be filled in...
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mary rosenblum
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for the scene to make sense.
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mary rosenblum
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If you need to portray a
certain alien characteristic, it is your job as writer...
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mary rosenblum
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to craft a scene that allows
that alien to demonstrate it for us.
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mary rosenblum
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If they routinely take a bite
out another...that is their chemical conversation...
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mary rosenblum
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then you need to set up a
scene where it happens and either make it clear that this is
communication...
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mary rosenblum
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or involve a human POV who can
comment on it and thus inform us.
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mary rosenblum
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I spend a LOT of time when I'm
starting a story set in an alien universe.
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mary rosenblum
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Sometimes I need to focus on
the where...other times I need to focus on the what.
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mary rosenblum
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In a recent story set in an
asteroid miner...I needed to set the reader firmly in the asteroid belt in
a ship mining asteroids...so I concentrated...
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mary rosenblum
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on showing the craft at work
as the plot started.
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mary rosenblum
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In a recent story, I mostly
needed the reader to understand what the MC's new career and situation
were, so I set it in a bar and let him moan and grumble to a buddy about
his fate.
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mary rosenblum
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That established the what and
who.
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redhead
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That is so hard, when I have so
much that I want them to know.
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mary rosenblum
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It is hard, red, and that is
the biggest hurdle...learning how LITTLE you need to dribble out at a time.
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mary rosenblum
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We LOVE to share our wonderful
worlds with our readers.
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mary rosenblum
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And remember the
iceberg....while you, the writer, need to know the entire iceberg of
backstory about your world, only that tip is going to actually stick into
the story and be visible to the reader.
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mary rosenblum
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Most of us when we start out
cram the whole iceberg into the story! :-)
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mary rosenblum
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It drowns the plot and pacing.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about beginnings. If you're new here, remember that you need
to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the
red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon
in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can
also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
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seigfried007
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how long do readers wait for
puzzle pieces? every odd term gets explained, but sometimes not for several
chapters because it's not important to the now.
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mary rosenblum
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You can keep adding puzzle
pieces right up until you approach your climax, seig.
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mary rosenblum
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Of course, you'd better hand
readers the really important ones, first.
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mary rosenblum
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But you can still keep
deepening your world as the plot progresses.
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mary rosenblum
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There comes a point...and
I"m very aware of it now...when all the backstory is done, I can stop
thinking about how to shoehorn in this or that detail...
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mary rosenblum
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and I can just let go and run
with the plot. I love that moment!
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mary rosenblum
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Up until then, I have a mental
list of all the things I want the reader to know.
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mary rosenblum
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In my most recent book, the
one that will be out next year, for example, I have created...
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mary rosenblum
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a stable society living on
four orbital platforms. I had to get in all the details about the tech, the
social customs, physical problems of lining in spin-G, economics, and
that's before I even approached the plot!
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mary rosenblum
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So I'm slipping in new details
and info in every scene.
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christopher dale
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If you have a strong intro to
characters (MC and Antogonist) inthe prologue, how important is it to
reiterate some of that for those who don't/wan't READ the prologue???
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mary rosenblum
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Considering my shocking
discovery that more than half the people I have queried so far don't READ
the prolog...I would make sure...
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mary rosenblum
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that any really important
information gets reiterated in an interesting manner, chris.
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bengalrose
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What about a short tag line at
the top of the story that sets the time and place? Something like this: 9
December, 2207. Research base Alpha, Xanadu Regio, Titan.
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mary rosenblum
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I've seen that, bengal. I find
that it gives the piece a bit of a 'diary' feel and I don't get as
thoroughly lost in the story...it sort of jolts me out a bit...
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mary rosenblum
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but if you need to keep track
of time, it works. In Dune, Herbert used encyclopedia entries to dump
backstory into his complex universe.
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mary rosenblum
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It was worth the small 'break'
because it would have been difficult to get it all in there otherwise.
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tellastory
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Do editors have a checklist as
they start reading a story?
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mary rosenblum
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Yes and no, tell. Yes, every
editor has a mental checklist, but no, it's nothing written down. Remember,
editors are creatively involved in this process...
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mary rosenblum
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they live story as much as we
do, and they live a wider variety of stories because they work with many
writers.
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mary rosenblum
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They know what they are
looking for and if you ask them, they'll give you the list. They sure don't
need to write it down. And they don't do it consciously.
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mary rosenblum
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I have the same checklist when
I work on a student or workshop story. I am looking for particular things
and if I don't find them, I help the student with that issue.
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christopher dale
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The reason I ask is that I
really poured a LOT into the prologue- this is the Desert Storm scene where
the MC meets the Ant. and the MC and his freinds are sent on a mission
design to fail. You really think I should bring "memories" of
that back into
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christopher dale
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play in the story? What about
those who DO read prologues??? Wopn't they go "Yeah, yeah. Bought the
book, saw the movie, let's move on!!!"?
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, I would, Chris, but you
can't replay it. I had an intense prolog in my first novel, and I did have
my MC think briefly about those events once or twice later on...
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mary rosenblum
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they directly affected his
actions. All I wanted to do was jog the reader's memory ...and it probably
sent the non-readers back to take a look. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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IF they looked at it at all.
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tellastory
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Can you give us a sample of the
list you look for?
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mary rosenblum
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Sure tell...and it's pretty
much what every editor I know (and I know quite a few) looks for...
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mary rosenblum
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Strong start, good sense of
what is going in, vivid and strong writing, strong sense of character,
strong pace, I want to keep reading, I don't want to quit...
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mary rosenblum
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That's on, not in.
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mary rosenblum
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And most editors I know stop
reading the minute their attention strays.
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mary rosenblum
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And if there is not [end] on
the next line, you'll get a rejection slip...
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mary rosenblum
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or maybe, if the editor is
almost there...a request for a revision.
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mary rosenblum
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Realize, folks, that it's not
that editors are sadists and just want you to jump through a lot of hoops.
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mary rosenblum
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A LOT of people want to write.
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mary rosenblum
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LOTS and LOTS.
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mary rosenblum
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And the editor's professional
reputation depends on what appears in his/her magazine, anthology, or the
bookt that comes out.
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mary rosenblum
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If your story is weak in the
middle and there are four on her desk that are similar in impact and NOT
weak in the middle...
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mary rosenblum
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why should she spend lots of
her very short time working to improve your craft when others have gotten
there on their own? She'll just buy one of theirs.
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mary rosenblum
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They DO want you to
succeed...you are their future reputation. (Every editor wants to discover
the next Stephen King)...
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mary rosenblum
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but they figure you need to
learn how to do it well, first.
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gskearney
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What's wrong with just making it
the first chapter?
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mary rosenblum
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That's a very good quesiton,
gary, and for that reason, I no longer use prologs.
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mary rosenblum
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Unless they are simply
teasers.
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mary rosenblum
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I did that with one of my
mysteries when I knew that nothing really dramatic was going to occur until
about the third or fourth chapter...
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mary rosenblum
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the plot got underway, but no
murder until later. Not usual in mystery.
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mary rosenblum
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So I did a little prolog that
hinted of dark things to come. If someone didn't read it, no big deal.
DIdn't matter.
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mary rosenblum
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If they did, it would whet
their appetite a bit.
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cosmos
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I'm working on a piece to send
out about making freezer dinners. Here's the opening. I'd appreciate
suggestions and help to make it better. The title is TOO BUSY TO COOK?
"Finding the time to cook a nutritious meal for your family can be a
challenge. You can offer a solution so your family can eat healthy meals and
maintain an active life style by cooking large meals once a week to make
homemade TV dinners destined for the freezer."
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mary rosenblum
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That's pretty straight forward
narrative, cosmos. You might be better off to start with a nice, vivid
anecdote.
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mary rosenblum
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Show us a family at the table,
complaining about the boxed dinner or leftovers...
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mary rosenblum
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and then tell us that Mom
could have made TV dinners.
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mary rosenblum
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Many nonfiction pieces begin
with a vivid bit of showing (an anecdote) before shifting into narrative.
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mary rosenblum
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It's a good way to hook
readers.
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cosmos
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So would that fix it and then
follow by with this first paragraph.
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mary rosenblum
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THat should make it a sharper
hook, cosmos.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about beginnings. If you're new here, remember that you need
to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the
red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon
in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can
also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
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seigfried007
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what about 'why'? When do we
answer that one? ;-)
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mary rosenblum
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Seig, you don't need to give
the full answer to THAT one until your climax. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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It's fine if readers know
earlier, but you don't have to give them the full picture even then.
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mary rosenblum
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You can reveal some heretofore
unsuspected things in your resolution.
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mary rosenblum
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In the forthcoming novel, you
get the very last 'why' puzzle piece AFTER the climax, and shortly before
the end of the book.
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christopher dale
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so I could make my prologue
Chapter 1, and then skip ahead ten years (or so) later and pick up withthe
murder???
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mary rosenblum
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Sure Chris. I would work on
your transition. End your first chapter with something...a premonition on
the part of the MC or someone or some event...
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mary rosenblum
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that foreshadows that murder
in Two.
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mary rosenblum
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Then, of course, you'll have
to very carefully set the 'when' on page one...BEFORE the MC answers the
door.
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mary rosenblum
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That way, readers will make
the leap from the first scene to the murder without scrambling around
wondering what is going on, why, and to whom?
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christopher dale
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I DO end it with the MC saying..
"“Figures.” Viper said. “If we ever cross paths again…” Viper let it
rest...."
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mary rosenblum
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Hard to tell out of context if
that works or not, Chris...but if you end with the MC feeling that shiver
of future...we should make the leap just fine.
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sailor
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If you have a prologue, then
that is your start, not the first chapter. Is that where your hook goes, or
do you then need two hooks, one for prologue, one for first chapter, for
those who skip the prologue?
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mary rosenblum
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I would not do a prolog unless
it is very powerful. Then, I would do a strong hook in chapter one, the
same as if you had no prolog.
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mary rosenblum
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I worked on a book for a
workshop at a con where the writer had a GREAT prolog..very powerful and
dramatic but made NO sense.
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mary rosenblum
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And realize...you do not need
backstory in a prolog...it should not be there.
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mary rosenblum
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It IS backstory to your novel.
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mary rosenblum
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BUt in this case, the first
chapter was one, long, boring scene setting string of flat action and
thought.
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mary rosenblum
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It was going to cost her a
sale, especially since chapter two didn't have much more of a dramatic arc.
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tellastory
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Do you use the same settings
over and over again?
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mary rosenblum
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I don't. I often set several
stories in the same universe, but not in the same exact setting.
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mary rosenblum
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Even in my mystery series, I
had the story take place in different locations.
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mary rosenblum
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I'd bore myself, using the
same settings over and over. :-) I see no reason to bore myself.
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seigfried007
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if the storyline spans several
years, is it better to put the date line at the beginning of the chap? esp
if chapter breaks often symbolize time breaks?
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mary rosenblum
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You can do that, seig. It's an
accepted method. Myself, I don't do it. I'd rather write a strong
transition into the start of the new chapter and set the reader firmly in
that time and place...
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mary rosenblum
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and a lot of readers, myself
included, alas, tend to skip the dates. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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I just read a ms to write a
blurb for the author and kept getting lost.
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mary rosenblum
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He did the dateline thing and
I just don't read 'em.
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mary rosenblum
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Had to keep going back and
making myself compare dates to last chapter..I could never remember what
the date of the last chapter was.
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mary rosenblum
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It really detracted from the
book, in my opinion.
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mary rosenblum
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I'd rather make it clear in the
first couple of paragraphs WHEN and WHERE we are.
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christopher dale
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axing the prologue and just
making it Chapter 1???
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mary rosenblum
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I haven't read your ms, Chris,
and I can't really advise you, but if your prolog matters to your story, it
might be better off as a chapter.
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fiction_scribe
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what about when chapters
alternate timelines
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mary rosenblum
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That gets more sticky.
I"ve seen some very nice parallel plotlines done with labels...
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mary rosenblum
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There, it can help the readers
as they bounce from, say, historical past to present.
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mary rosenblum
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Louise Marley did one
recently, where she skipped from a POV in the time of Ben Franklin, to an
artist in modern USA.
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mary rosenblum
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There, as I recall, the POV
shift kept you aware of which time you were in. She didn't need labels at
all.
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mary rosenblum
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I've seen it done where the
sections were labled by where they took place.
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mary rosenblum
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One plotline might take place
in t 1880 San Francisco (and was labeled San Francisco)...
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mary rosenblum
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and the other, say, 20005
Manhattan (and labeled accordingly).
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mary rosenblum
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If that's the best way for
your story, do it, but it does provide a very notceable break that jolts
your reader temporarily out of the story.
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mary rosenblum
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So I wouldn't do it unless you
have good reason.
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mary rosenblum
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Don't do it because you think
it adds to the story. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Realize there is a bit of a
cost for using it, but not a prohibitive one, if that's your best tool.
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seigfried007
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like the time dsparity between
alternate planes of existence?
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mary rosenblum
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YOu could do something like
'June' and 'October' or whatever, seig.
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mary rosenblum
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The weather or flora or fauna
might also tell us.
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mary rosenblum
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ASk yourself this:
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mary rosenblum
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Can my reader immediately tell
when/where we are without my help?
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mary rosenblum
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In Louise's Glass Harmonica,
you could. The POV told you when/where you were.
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christopher dale
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one last question (from me) on
prologues - I read a LOT of AA, and all the ones I read tend to have a
prolgoue. Might it be taht AAs tend to use prologues to set up the
backstory so they can jump right into the plot?!?!?!? Or should I still
consider
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, the thrilllers/action
adventure do tend to run to prologs and often they are the dramatic action
that serves as backstory to the main action.
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mary rosenblum
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Certainly if you are writing
within a particular genre, you need to observe the conventions of that
particular genre.
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mary rosenblum
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Each has its won.
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mary rosenblum
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own.
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mary rosenblum
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I'm talking in generalities
that apply to all fiction, but remember, rules are not cast in stone in the
fiction universe.
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mary rosenblum
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If breaking one makes your
book much stronger. Break it.
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mary rosenblum
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Just be sure that breaking it
DOES make your book stronger. :-) Or story, for that matter.
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bengalrose
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seems like Fantasy tends toward
prologs too
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mary rosenblum
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And kind of boring ones, too,
bengal. When I queried fantasy readers at a recent convention about reading
prologues, I got about 80 percent 'no'.
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mary rosenblum
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If they're not reading 'em,
why put 'em in there?
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cosmos
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Is this better? Or should I show
it with dialogue? "The mother of the house is away at a PTA meeting
and didn't have time to prepare dinner. Eight year old Johnny opens the
refrigerator for the third time in 10 minutes and finally settles on mashed
potatoes. The father eyes the leftover chicken from last night and never
eats vegetables without prompting. Sally, 14, opens the fridge asking,
"Is this all there is?" and grabs a diet soda. Does this happen
at your house? The mother could have made homemade TV dinners and then
everyone would have been happy.
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mary rosenblum
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That's MUCH better cosmos! We
see the scene and can relate to it.
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mary rosenblum
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You are not lecturing us!
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mary rosenblum
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Nice change.
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bengalrose
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good point ;-)
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mary rosenblum
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-)
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seigfried007
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At the beginning of my story,
the characters are leaving a train station to meet an informant who tells
them where to find food. how do i explain the why htey're searching for
food--only a mini-sub-plot, mary
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mary rosenblum
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You may simply need to begin
somewhere else.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about beginnings. If you're new here, remember that you need
to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the
red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon
in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can
also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
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seigfried007
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no matter where i start, there's
going to be mounds of backstory that'll have to be explained later. I was
hoping the need for food (plus the subsequent issue of police entanglement)
would be enough for readers to wait (or realize that apparently humans and
this other race don't get along
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mary rosenblum
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That sounds very doable, seig.
YOu can fill in more details of why later on.
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mary rosenblum
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If the relationship between
aliens and people is most important, then this might be the perfect start.
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tkat_2
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Mary, I just wanted to announce
that The League of Extraordinary Revisionists, an on-line writers support
group on yahoo.com was listed in The Writer Magazine Group Section just
recently. I'm unsure whether it was in the magazine or on-line though.
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mary rosenblum
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WAy to go, tkat!
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mary rosenblum
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Is this a group your in?
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mary rosenblum
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The main thing about openings
is to embed your who/what/where/why details in action...
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mary rosenblum
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so that you don't tell your
readers what is going on.
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mary rosenblum
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YOur opening might very well
be perfect, Seig...
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mary rosenblum
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if your characters show us the
relationship between aliens and humans as they scrounge for food...
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mary rosenblum
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and we learn some why details
as they talk and your POV character thinks or remembers.
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mary rosenblum
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Readers will help you out.
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mary rosenblum
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Give them the opening of your
story and then ask them to tell you 'who,what, where, when'
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mary rosenblum
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See if they are seeing the
same scene.
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mary rosenblum
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This has been a fun Oregon
hour. I'm off to have lunch with Anne McCaffery, who is visiting from
Ireland.
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mary rosenblum
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She has always been one of my
favorite SF writers and I haven't seen her in years.
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gskearney
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Say, Hi! She's one of my
favorites. --gk
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mary rosenblum
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I will, Gary. She's a very
neat lady.
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mary rosenblum
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Work on those beginnings all!
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mary rosenblum
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See you tomorrow for our
casual chat.
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mary rosenblum
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I'll post the transcripts in
the usual place.
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mary rosenblum
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Writing Craft: Forum
Transcripts.
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