Forum Transcripts

Backstory 7/8/05

Event start time:

Fri Jul 08 19:07:27 2005

Event end time:

Fri Jul 08 20:31:33 2005



Legend:
Questions from the Audience are presented in red.
Answers by the Speaker are in black.
The Moderator's comments are in blue.

mary rosenblum

Hello all!

mary rosenblum

I hope you had a good week!

mary rosenblum

This is our After Hours Forum, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and we're talking about backstory. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..

mary rosenblum

I wanted to talk about backstory today, because that tends to give novice writers a lot of trouble.

mary rosenblum

You either end up with too little backstory and your readers are confused...

mary rosenblum

or you end up with too much and everybody falls asleep.

mary rosenblum

It's a VERY fine line to walk in short fiction...

mary rosenblum

and even in novels, it's a problem.

wardg

Is backstory only in third person, like just narrating to the reader about what happened earlier?

mary rosenblum

No, it isn't, Ward.

mary rosenblum

And actually, most of the time, you do NOT want it to sound like YOU the author telling the reader what is going on.

mary rosenblum

The ideal is to slip it into your story in bits and pieces so that the reader never notices that he/she is acquiring a fund of...

mary rosenblum

knowlege about these people and this universe.

mary rosenblum

The more you can follow that fundamental 'show, don't tell' rule...

mary rosenblum

the better your backstory will work.

wardg

So when my character remembers a time in his childhood, and the reader is carried back to the event, that is still backstory... but it can be too much info at once?

mary rosenblum

Yes and yes, Ward.

mary rosenblum

Yes, that memory of the childhood picnic may offer the reader a lot of valuable..

mary rosenblum

insight into the MC's past. That's a great way to do it, by the way.

mary rosenblum

You just don't want to spend so much time remembering that past that the story flow stops cold.

beirdd

I've tried using flashbacks, but maybe I saw too many episodes of "Kung Fu" when I was a kid, because flashbacks get tiresome to me.

mary rosenblum

Oh, it's not just you, beirdd...nearly all readers get tired of them very quickly.

mary rosenblum

A brief memory can be highly useful, but too many lengthy flashbacks where we actually enter the scene...

mary rosenblum

can be difficult to pull off effectively.

gwanny

Is it best to use dialogue, let the character tell the backstory?

mary rosenblum

That's another effective tool, gwanny.

mary rosenblum

There is no ONE way to do backstory, and you should make use of a variety of methods...

mary rosenblum

to slip your backstory in as many small bites of information...

mary rosenblum

rather than choking your reader with that entire 'watermelon' of backstory.

aulait

What technique is best for introducing backstory...a dream, conversation?

mary rosenblum

All of the above, aulait. :-)

mary rosenblum

A dream. A conversation with another character, or an overheard conversation.

mary rosenblum

A memory.

mary rosenblum

An old letter.

mary rosenblum

A scene or item that evokes something from the past.

mary rosenblum

The big mistake that most novices make is to try...

mary rosenblum

and give the reader ALL the backstory right away.

mary rosenblum

They feel that the reader has to know all about this character in order to understand what is going on...

mary rosenblum

so they dump a page or two of 'my character's history' into the start of the story...

mary rosenblum

and that story bogs down in the mud.

mary rosenblum

What you will come to learn, as you get more and more reader feedback...

mary rosenblum

is that readers need very few clues in order to guess at the larger picture.

aulait

I've read books where the chapters are divided. One is present time and then the next in the past. Is this acceptable?

mary rosenblum

Anything is acceptable if it works, aulait. :-)

mary rosenblum

That sounds like a parallel plot construction to me...

mary rosenblum

where two separate stories are told seperately, converging at the end.

wardg

so giving backstory in small chunks can add a sense of mystery to any story in any genre? keep the reader guessing but not confused...

mary rosenblum

Yes, exactly.

mary rosenblum

We like to be curious. We are curious species.

mary rosenblum

Hand your reader puzzle pieces and let them put the picture together.

mary rosenblum

Why do you think jigsaw puzzles are so popular?

mary rosenblum

It's much more fun than sitting through a short course in the character's life story. Boring.

mary rosenblum

This is our After Hours Forum, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and we're talking about backstory. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..

whistlin_smithy

Hi Mary. Would you say the method of backstory introduction may be dependent somewhat on the POV, as well as style, and even possibly, genre?

mary rosenblum

Absolutely. There is no one method of introducing backstory.

mary rosenblum

It has to suit the story.

mary rosenblum

If you're writing in first person, your POV character is going to have to tell us.

mary rosenblum

If she's very chatty, that's not a problem.

mary rosenblum

If this is a hardboiled PI who doesn't talk much, you're going to have less latitude to give the readers...

mary rosenblum

his personal history.

mary rosenblum

If you start your story with the characters running for their lives...you're going to have to wait...

mary rosenblum

to give us much backstory. They're too busy saving their skins right now.

aulait

When a story is told in first person is backstory harder to achieve?

mary rosenblum

It can be, just as giving the POV character's name to the reader can be a challenge. :-)

mary rosenblum

Depends on your character.

mary rosenblum

If she's very private and doesn't like to think about her past much,and never talks about it...

mary rosenblum

you're going to have to work hard.

mary rosenblum

If she's the town gossip..probably going to be easy!

wardg

didn't adams use the hitchhiker's guide itself as a convenient crutch to give backstory?

mary rosenblum

Yep, that's exacytly what he did. :-)

mary rosenblum

I've seen some SF stories where an encyclopedia or log entry adds backstory .

mary rosenblum

That was the case in Frank Herbert's Dune.

mary rosenblum

It had encyclopedia entries that added to the complex backstory of his universe.

gwanny

I have trouble deciding what the reader "assumes" and what I should show...regarding backstory

mary rosenblum

Everyone does at first, gwanny, and even for writers with more experience, like myself,...

mary rosenblum

it's still trickly. Nearly all of us rely on readers to tell us if we have it 'all there' before we publish work.

mary rosenblum

Essentially, you create an iceberg of information about your world and your characters.

mary rosenblum

But only the tip of the iceberg shows in your story.

mary rosenblum

Yes, all that lovely information sure adds to what we know about your world...

mary rosenblum

but it also steamrollers your plot and the story becomes a giant lecture.

wardg

It's amazing how one drill core thru an iceberg can illuminate so many layers... hint hint.

mary rosenblum

Oh it does indeed, ward. :-)

aulait

Shouldn't most writers have someone else read the finished manuscript to catch anything that is left out or confusing?

mary rosenblum

Personally, I think it's a very good idea.

mary rosenblum

I'd be more likely to go grocery shopping without my clothes than to send off a story that hadn't been read by two or three readers.

mary rosenblum

But I do know a couple of pros who simply cannot let anyone see their work before they submit it.

mary rosenblum

I really mean a couple...like 2.

mary rosenblum

That's the exception, rather than the rule.

mary rosenblum

If you're going to do well in the biz of publishing, you're going to get used to people commenting on what you write! :-)

mary rosenblum

And those comments BEFORE you publish are much more useful than comments AFTER you publish.

jmr

So... add just enough backstory to answer the questions the reader might have NOW at this particular point in the story and clear up any confusion that would result if the backstory were not there?

mary rosenblum

That's it exactly, jmr.

mary rosenblum

As you write a scene, starting with scene one, ask yourself...does my reader HAVE to know this now?

mary rosenblum

And if the answer is no...take it out.

mary rosenblum

Slip it in later.

aulait

Have you ever published something, especially when you were a novice, that you wish you had worked on more?

mary rosenblum

Well, I could always find ways to do things differently in stories that have been published, aulait, but I just don't do that. Why?

mary rosenblum

I'd rather write something new.

mary rosenblum

I've never published anything that I didn't feel was finished.

info

Still, don't you want one or two little questions left unanwsered with a hint of a promise to answer it over the next few pages or chapters? You know, to keep the reader reading or do you come up with some new little thing to do that?

mary rosenblum

Exactly, info, and if you only include the info that the reader MUST have in THIS scene, you will be adding backstory right up to your climax.

mary rosenblum

There is a point, I have discovered, where you have finished with your backstory.

mary rosenblum

I can always feel it when I get there.

mary rosenblum

All the backstory is in place, the reader has all the puzzle pieces...

mary rosenblum

and from here on the story plays out to its end without any more backstory additions.

jmr

What you could have done differently could always become a new story...

mary rosenblum

Yep.

mary rosenblum

A lot of my stories get republished over and over in anthologies...

mary rosenblum

so I have the option of revising if I want to. So far haven't done it.

wardg

My guinea pig readers often find that I assume too much about the reader and not give pertinent puzzle pieces; are there any tricks I can use to avoid that?

mary rosenblum

Sure, Ward.

mary rosenblum

Ask yourself 'what MUST my character know in order for this scene to make sense."

mary rosenblum

Since you're on the 'not enough' end of the spectrum, you probably won't end up taking stuff out...

mary rosenblum

but instead may have to go back and plant needed details.

mary rosenblum

For example, if our knight meets a stranger in the forest and instantly attacks him, (and the knight is our good guy, POV)...

mary rosenblum

what do we need to know? We need to know...

mary rosenblum

why he attacked this stranger.

mary rosenblum

So we go back and plant the backstory about this evil lord who killed his family...

mary rosenblum

and now he attacks any knight who supports this evil lord.

mary rosenblum

Then, when he charges this stranger, we recognize the insignia on his shield and know why our 'good guy' is doing this.

mary rosenblum

But we do not need to know HERE all the details about his childhood or WHY the evil lord killed his family or anything else about his past...

mary rosenblum

for that matter, except that one bit of information.

wardg

or we could plant a few alternative details to keep the reader guessing a bit about whether it's because of the evil lord or maybe a bar fight or a love triangle, etc.

mary rosenblum

Well it depends on your story and what you are trying to do, ward.

mary rosenblum

If our MC acts like a thug, you lose reader empathy. We don't like him much.

mary rosenblum

If we understand why he's acting like a thug, or even guess that there is a good reason for it, we won't dislike him.

mary rosenblum

Here, for example, you might have our nice, sympathetic character...

mary rosenblum

kill this stranger. He might even be unarmed and seem harmless...

mary rosenblum

and we are SHOCKED. We liked this guy!

mary rosenblum

But then he might say something like...'that's for my little sister and our parents'...

mary rosenblum

and we'll guess that maybe he's not just acting outrageously.

mary rosenblum

And we'll reserve judgement. And later find out about his family...

mary rosenblum

and that these people are wizards who don't need to carry arms...

mary rosenblum

And that single clue...his words...

mary rosenblum

cue us to wait and see, don't jump to conclusions yet.

gwanny

or, the knight could tell the guy why he is going to kill him, while holding a knife to the guys throat. "I want you to know why you are about to die"?

mary rosenblum

Weeelllll yeah, but you know what, gwanny? You better work hard at making it plausible.

mary rosenblum

It's a whole lot safer to kill someone who might well kill you than to launch into a soliloquy. :-)

mary rosenblum

You can do it, but you do need to work a bit to make it seem like a realistic behavior.

wardg

my name is inigo montoya. you keeled my father. prepare to die. heh

mary rosenblum

Exactly, ward. :-)

mary rosenblum

If you've seen it on late night reruns, don't DO it.

mary rosenblum

This is our After Hours Forum, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and we're talking about backstory. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..

aulait

When writing a series is there backstory that would be repeated in each of the series books?

mary rosenblum

Oh yeh, aulait.

mary rosenblum

Series books are a BIG headache that way.

mary rosenblum

Even my mystery series, where I didn't have to create a universe each time was hard.

mary rosenblum

Your regular readers know this stuf.

mary rosenblum

Your new readers need this stuff.

mary rosenblum

And you have to balance that.

mary rosenblum

Marion Zimmer Bradley had a unique method that actually worked for her.

mary rosenblum

In her fantasy series, she simply started each one with the same solid chapter of backstory.

mary rosenblum

I mean EXACT.

mary rosenblum

If you were a regular reader, you skipped it and the plot started in chapter two.

mary rosenblum

If you were new, you read it find out about the character and world.

mary rosenblum

It was narrataive and nothing but backstory.

mary rosenblum

But it worked.

mary rosenblum

For her.

gwanny

thats what I meant (ward). Not the whole story...just enough so that the reader knows the knight has a reason

mary rosenblum

Well, gwanny, a cryptic comment like 'this is for my brother' is going to tell us he has areason...

mary rosenblum

and, as I said, readers will reserve judgement.

beirdd

Anne McCaffrey has a similar foreword in her Dragon books.

mary rosenblum

That's right, she does. I think she started doing that later in her Pern series. As I recall, the original trilogy doesn't do that.

mary rosenblum

But it's tough...her Pern universe is very complex and well realized and her regular fans know it like their backyard.

mary rosenblum

If she created it each time for new readers, she'd bore the regulars to tears.

wardg

don't some series have an "our story so far..." chapter?

mary rosenblum

ONly the 'slice of sausage' series, ward.

mary rosenblum

Those are essentially huge stories that were arbitrarily cut into segments so they could be published.

mary rosenblum

Not the best way to do a series in my opinion.

mary rosenblum

Readers have to wait too long for the next installment and they get irritable.

mary rosenblum

Remember that you should check scenes when you are done with your first draft.

mary rosenblum

In each scene ask yourself; will my reader know 'who', 'what' , and 'when'?

mary rosenblum

Who is doing things, what are they doing, and when/where is it happening.

aulait

In nonfiction the same techniques are not needed, correct?

mary rosenblum

Yes and no, aulait.

mary rosenblum

Depends on what you are writing.

mary rosenblum

In personal narrative, yeah, backstory plays about the same role as it does in fiction.

mary rosenblum

Informative or persuasive nonfiction uses different techniques, but your're still faced...

mary rosenblum

with the necessity to embed information without halting the flow of the piece.

mary rosenblum

Remember, if you're writing popular nonfiction and not for a textbook...

mary rosenblum

your goal is to entertain as well as to inform.

mary rosenblum

This is our After Hours Forum, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and we're talking about backstory. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..

wardg

isn't that why a lot of nonfiction for periodicals uses sidebars? =optional backstory.

mary rosenblum

That's probably a pretty good analogy, ward.

mary rosenblum

It's information not all readers will want, so you give them the option.

mary rosenblum

What your backstory needs to do...

mary rosenblum

is to make your characters' actions comprehensible to the reader.

mary rosenblum

That's all.

mary rosenblum

And of course, if you're writing in the speculative fiction field...

mary rosenblum

you are also creating an entire universe at the same time...

mary rosenblum

you're juggling five balls instead of three!

aulait

Backstory within a short story is more difficult because of the limited word count. How do you condense the back story effectively for shorter formats?

mary rosenblum

This is the ART of short fiction, aulait...

mary rosenblum

it is deciding which details carry the most 'bang for the buck'.

mary rosenblum

So that you use the minimum number of backstory details to give the reader the most information.

mary rosenblum

You really can include ONLY the backstory that is vital to the story in short fiction.

mary rosenblum

In novels, you can add more, as long as you don't bog down the story..

mary rosenblum

and that's what gives novels their richness.

mary rosenblum

In short fiction you suggest things that you can actually include in a novel length work.

mary rosenblum

Think of a sumi painting...one of those Japanese brushpaintings where perhaps twelve or eighteen brush strokes...

mary rosenblum

will suggest a range of mountains, a water fall, a forest and a leaping fish.

mary rosenblum

You find those few key details that suggest the entire backstory...

mary rosenblum

and let the reader create it.

mary rosenblum

For example, our POV might move into a small rural farmhouse in the West Virgina hills...

mary rosenblum

and meet a skinny kid with wild gray eyes in patched jeans with a bruised face.

mary rosenblum

We may never learn any more details of his homelife, but the suggestion will be...

mary rosenblum

rural poverty and a battering parent.

jmr

We know our character lived for many years before we write about him, so we need to find the one day, hour or instant that is needed in our story - and not the past 40+ years - :-)

mary rosenblum

That's it exactly.

mary rosenblum

We could include the history of the kid's family...how dad was a miner and the mine closed and mom washes clothes and cares for seven kids and dad drinks...

mary rosenblum

but that's not important enough to detail here.

mary rosenblum

In this short story, every reader gets to create that homelife for himself/herself.

mary rosenblum

And it'll be similar but not exactly the same.

mary rosenblum

That's why it's your job to decide what details DO need to be included.

mary rosenblum

Let readers handle the rest.

aulait

So storytelling is like a gourmet meal. The way it is served and the order it is served in has as much to do with the experience as the food itself.

mary rosenblum

That's a great way of putting it, aulait!

mary rosenblum

You are not cramming information down a reader's throat.

mary rosenblum

And this is where a lot of novices have problems.

mary rosenblum

It is now WHAT you write that makes your work memorable.

mary rosenblum

It is HOW you do it.

mary rosenblum

Which is why it simply does not matter if someone else has used a particular idea.

wardg

but not too gourmet, at least fill up most of the plate... lol

mary rosenblum

Well, there are many tastes out there, and just as you can have many many types of restaurants, you can have a wide range of stories. (all right, I'm getting hungry...no more food analogies. LOL)

mary rosenblum

How many times has the plot of Romeo and Juliet been used?

mary rosenblum

Thousands, probably.

mary rosenblum

I'm sure Shakespeare was not the first!

mary rosenblum

This is our After Hours Forum, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and we're talking about backstory. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..

mary rosenblum

My advice, for the average new writer, is to begin with as little backstory as you can.

mary rosenblum

If readers are confused, add more, and keep that in mind next time.

mary rosenblum

The temptation is to dump in that huge expository lump of character backstory or give us the history of the planet...

mary rosenblum

if it's a SF or fantasy piece.

mary rosenblum

And then start the story.

mary rosenblum

Not a good idea.

mary rosenblum

One If you really must get your reader firmly situated in your universe before you get the plot rolling...

mary rosenblum

at least begin with your characters doing something that reveals the nature of your unvierse rather than narrating it!

mary rosenblum

I use that opening quite a bit in my short fiction...

mary rosenblum

because I have to show my readers a fairly complex future universe.

mary rosenblum

So my story may open with my MC doing something that shows us the universe and then the plot line starts....usually by page 2.

mary rosenblum

In mystery shorts, I can generally start with a plot element because they're set in the real world...

mary rosenblum

and readers can wait for a bit to find out when and where.

mary rosenblum

Although the novel I just finished opens with a plot element on page one and reveals the universe simultaneously as the plot gets rolling...so you can do it many ways.

mary rosenblum

Remember...you need to keep only what the reader MUST know.

mary rosenblum

Take out the stuff that would be 'nice to know' and slip it in later.

mary rosenblum

And do try to have all your backstory in place BEFORE the climax. :-)

mary rosenblum

You will reach a place where you don't need to add any more backstory and can just concentrate on letting the plot events unfold.

mary rosenblum

I think of it as my story having 'legs' at that point.

mary rosenblum

It trots along all by itself from there on, and I don't have to do any more world building or backstory embedding.

wardg

it seems like hidden backstory slipped in at the climax is one sure way to say "bad writing"... and then i woke up?

mary rosenblum

Well, it's kind of useless after the issue has been resolved, ward. Yep. :-)

mary rosenblum

And by the way.. 'And then I woke up' doens't fly with many editors. :-)

roe

doesn't fly with many readers either feel cheated

mary rosenblum

Yep. Which is why it doesn't fly with editors. :-) They DO know what folk like.

beirdd

What about the "Author's note" at the end of a story, to explain something factual that the reader might not have known?

mary rosenblum

My own personal feeling is that most of the time, that is bad writing. A lot of readers won't read it. You're better off to embed it in the story...

mary rosenblum

but not all writers are equally good at that.

mary rosenblum

And that afterward or foreward is kind of a lazy way out, in my opinion.

roe

how do you feel about epilogue?

mary rosenblum

I think they are more successful than prologues, roe. If you simply cannot wrap up ALL your loose ends at the climax/resolution...

mary rosenblum

rather than stuff your ending, do an epilogue.

mary rosenblum

Mostly you see it with novels, where the long term future of the MCs is of high interest...

mary rosenblum

to the readers. A lot of readers like it...an assurance that their beloved character really IS going to make out all right.

roe

most of the ones I've seen are romance three years later kind of thing

geezer

Would epilogue be suited to historical pieces?

mary rosenblum

Yes, roe. Or we get to meet the kid the pregnant heroine was carrying, as he comes of age... something like that.

mary rosenblum

And sure, epilogues work in any kind of fiction, geezer.

mary rosenblum

If they work. :-)

jmr

Epilogues that I have liked in books with a lot of action - gives you a chance to cool down a bit too... sometimes in a good book you don't want it end too soon...

mary rosenblum

It's a way to let the reader down gently, jmr, and it's useful when you have a LOT of subplots to tie up.

mary rosenblum

You can ignore some of those subplots at the climax/resolution and tie them up in an epilogue.

mary rosenblum

So in summation...slip your backstory in in little pieces and let the reader assemble the picture.

mary rosenblum

Less is usually more, although you can err the other way.

mary rosenblum

And even pros need reader input to get it right. :-)

mary rosenblum

Remember...we don't need to know EVERYTHING...just the necessary details so that...

mary rosenblum

we can understand the characters' actions.

mary rosenblum

Well, this has been a fun Oregon hour. :-) Do join us Sunday for our open chat...

mary rosenblum

we just get together and talk about everything writing.

mary rosenblum

Same time as the Forum tonight, same place, but on Sundays.

mary rosenblum

Meanwhile, have a good weekend!

mary rosenblum

I'll post the transcript in the usual place: Writing Craft: ForumTranscripts.

mary rosenblum

Have a good weekend, all!

 

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