Forum Transcripts

Simplicity 10/30/07


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Questions from the Audience are presented in red.
Answers by the Speaker are in black.
The Moderator's comments are in blue.

Mary Rosenblum

Hello all.

Mary Rosenblum

Welcome to our Tuesday Lunchbox Forum.

Mary Rosenblum

I wanted to talk about language today. Usually I talk about content and craft issues such as characterization, pacing, plotting and the like.

Mary Rosenblum

But let's zoom in on the words we actually use, whether we're creating a nonfiction informative piece, a personal narrative, or a fiction story.

Mary Rosenblum

One of the most common weaknesses I see in novice writing is cluttered prose.

geezer

I can't do metaphores. No poetry in my soul!

Mary Rosenblum

You probably use more metaphors than you realize, geeze, and poetry is not a necessary requirement for all writing, believe me!

Mary Rosenblum

Quite often that 'poetic' language interferes significantly with what the author is attempting to do.

Mary Rosenblum

Language needs to suit the form.

Mary Rosenblum

A lyrical narrative about the author's take on life and butterflies, a how-to piece about building a garden walkway, a mystery story, and a literary story about a man's encounter with a talking statue are all going to use very different types of language.

Mary Rosenblum

If you are limited to one voice, one type of language, then you will tend to be successful in the form that suits your langauge best.

Mary Rosenblum

Ideally, your language should be flexible so that you can write to suit your form.

Mary Rosenblum

Let me define 'clutter' first. I see a lot of it, when I suspect the writer is trying for a 'literary voice'.

Mary Rosenblum

Clutter is simply a labored way of saying something simple.

Mary Rosenblum

You can find some LOVELY examples from the airlines.

Mary Rosenblum

Let's take that little oxygen bag that drops down out of the ceiling on a flight.

Mary Rosenblum

"In the unlikely possibility that the aircraft should experience such an eventuality, the bag will release from its compartment...'

Mary Rosenblum

So that's a lot of words to process.

Mary Rosenblum

What is the goal here?

Mary Rosenblum

To inform nervous and inattentive passengers that if the plane loses pressure the oxygen mask will drop down in front of them.

Mary Rosenblum

Here's the simple and straightforward version:

Mary Rosenblum

If the plane loses oxygen pressure, the mask will drop down in front of your face.

Mary Rosenblum

I suggest that the clutter here is used to 'bury' the frightening thought that something could go wrong.

Mary Rosenblum

Or maybe the person writing the script got paid by the word?

Mary Rosenblum

As did Dickens, think about that next time you read Tale of Two Cities... :-)

Mary Rosenblum

If you want GREAT examples of clutter, listen to the next speech given by a politician. Sheesh.

Mary Rosenblum

Clutter is also the insertion of clusters of words that really don't mean anything.

Mary Rosenblum

It is interesting to note that.... It may be perceived that.... She sensed that... He felt that....

Mary Rosenblum

Just state that 'note'. State the perception. If she senses something, simply tell us what it is. What DOES he feel?

Mary Rosenblum

Every 'empty' word you use -- one that does not convey clear information, visual, sensory input -- blurs the impact of your prose.

Mary Rosenblum

If the scene is of central importance (think a mystery, romance, adventure story), then you don't want to blur that scene.

Mary Rosenblum

If the information is of central importance (news story, how to article, informational article) then you don't want to blur that information.

Mary Rosenblum

Now you DO have literary writing and like poetry, the words -- the literary style -- is of central importance.

Mary Rosenblum

But don't confuse clutter with literary style.

Mary Rosenblum

Your language should serve the piece as a whole.

janecj333

So, what is the difference between voice that's not artificial, and clutter?

Mary Rosenblum

Effectiveness.

Mary Rosenblum

If your piece could be more effective with simpler, clearer language, then your language is too cluttered.

Mary Rosenblum

If some of the magic of the scene is lost if the language is simplified, then the language is appropriate.

Mary Rosenblum

Peter Beagle's story 'The Last Unicorn' is actually a pretty simple fantasy plot.

Mary Rosenblum

His language -- which is literary and elegant -- makes that piece the powerful work of fiction it is.

Mary Rosenblum

Told in a very spare language it would have been a so-so young adult fantasy maybe.

Mary Rosenblum

That's part of the enduring power of Tolkien's work.

Mary Rosenblum

His language is rich, luxurious, and the plot is hardly what carries this novel throughout three full books.

Mary Rosenblum

Written in spare, clean prose, it would lose a lot of power.

Mary Rosenblum

But...that in NO way means that adding a lot of words to your mystery or fantasy or what have you will make it BETTER.

Mary Rosenblum

Far from it.

Mary Rosenblum

Peter Beagle wrote other works of fantasy and his prose was much less elegant and literary because that langauge did NOT suit those stories.

Mary Rosenblum

Ask yourself what your goal is.

Mary Rosenblum

Is it to bring the reader into a scene of romance, adventure, or thrill?

Mary Rosenblum

Your langauge needs to take a back seat to clarity of scene. (Spare langauge).

Mary Rosenblum

Is your goal to entertain your readers with your MC's elaborate metaphors? Language will need to be more complex, richer.

Mary Rosenblum

Is your goal to scare the pants off your readers? Spare.

Mary Rosenblum

Is your goal to create a rich and intersting other universe? You can probably use much richer language.

onepozy

Don't publishers encourage clutter, they picture a novel as say 70000 words yet a writer can tell the story in say 60000

Mary Rosenblum

Only if you're a poor writer. Editors are very aware of pace. By 'cluttering prose' with those extra 10,000 words you're going to soften the tension and pace of the story.

Mary Rosenblum

That may well work against you.

Mary Rosenblum

If an editors want a longer book -- and I've had that happen to me! -- they want another subplot or more scenes. NOT cluttered langauge.

janecj333

One person's rich and elegant is another person's froufrou. How do we not put off readers as Tolkien puts some of us off?

Mary Rosenblum

Nobody is going to be able to please every reader on the planet.

Mary Rosenblum

All you can do is decide whom you are writing for and what you want that story to do, and then make it as strong as you can.

Mary Rosenblum

That is and is not the same as writing 'for yourself'.

Mary Rosenblum

It IS deciding what you want to write and whom you want to write for. That may not be a huge slice of the population

Mary Rosenblum

and if it's a small enough slice, don't expect major publishers to want to publish your book.

Mary Rosenblum

But you're still trying to make that story accessible and powerful to those people.

Mary Rosenblum

Writing 'for yourself' in terms of writing it just the way that makes sense to you leaves out most other people. :-) You know the story well enough that the book works for you

Mary Rosenblum

but it's not likely to work nearly that well for people who are not you.

Mary Rosenblum

That's what writing craft is all about.

Mary Rosenblum

It's making what you see and understand so clearly equally clear to people who can't read your mind.

Mary Rosenblum

That's why it's so hard to see why your story or narrative isn't as good as some published classic when you start out.

Mary Rosenblum

You don't realize how much craft went in to making that classic work for you the way a story you make up (knowing everything about everything) works for you.

Mary Rosenblum

Language is a big part of that.

Mary Rosenblum

When you're done with the next thing you write, go through it sentence by sentence saying to yourself 'is there a clearer way to say that?'

Mary Rosenblum

If there is, do it. Usually that gets rid of a LOT of words.

Mary Rosenblum

Then go through it again and wherever it reads rough or choppy, smooth it out. Sure, you can add back some words if you need to.

Mary Rosenblum

But you'll still end up, I bet you, having lost a lot of words.

Mary Rosenblum

Ask yourself what those words are donig.

Mary Rosenblum

She smiled happily.

Mary Rosenblum

That's redundant, yes?

Mary Rosenblum

She smiled or she grinned or she beamed is just fine.

Mary Rosenblum

Ken hurried back into the living room. When he looked around he realized that Jack had left the room.

Mary Rosenblum

Ken hurried back into the living room. Jack had left.

Mary Rosenblum

Obviously he had looked around. Obviously he realizes that Jack has left. Where could he leave from? He's in the room right?

Mary Rosenblum

If the scene has been taking place in the living room and Ken went to the bathroom, you can simplifiy it even more.

Mary Rosenblum

Ken hurried back. Jack had left.

Mary Rosenblum

If this is a dramatic high point, you could use the two short, choppy sentences. Ken hurried back. Jack had left. That adds 'punch'.

Mary Rosenblum

If it's not a dramatic high note, smooth it out.

Mary Rosenblum

When Ken returned, Jack had left.

kish100

does more money/more word count influence clutter?

Mary Rosenblum

Only to high school students and novice writers. :-) Editors are editors becuase they are experts with words (good editors that is). They know clutter when they see it and they won't pay for it.

Mary Rosenblum

This is VERY VERY critical in nonfiction where editors break out into hives (and rejection slips) if you include extra words.

Mary Rosenblum

I HATE the usual rule in school to require word counts. I became an expert at turning a 400 word essay into a five page paper. Boy did I have some unlearning to do!

janecj333

Micromanaging every scene usually feels like clutter to me, when a simple 'cut' to the next important event would serve better.

Mary Rosenblum

It depends Jane. Writing is micromanaging. I mean you can do the 'chimps with typewriter' thing and keep cranking out story after story, essay after essay. Some will be good, most won't.

Mary Rosenblum

And your cut to the next scene may leave out something that will really work for the reader.

Mary Rosenblum

Or you might well be better off cutting that scene!

Mary Rosenblum

That simply depends on the story.

janecj333

But then other scenes feel like you have to say more, that the deeper meanings have yet to be made clear.

Mary Rosenblum

Sure The flip side of clutter is writing that is simply too skeletal.

Mary Rosenblum

That's not as common, but it happens.

Mary Rosenblum

Writing is a balancing act always, walking a fence between too much and too little.

Mary Rosenblum

You fall off a lot on both sides.

Mary Rosenblum

BUT;....the type of clutter I used as an example above is not something you're likely to NEED in a scene.

Mary Rosenblum

Those are just 'weedy words' that don't add anything.

Mary Rosenblum

THat is very different than adding content to the scene to enrich the plot or deepen characterization.

Mary Rosenblum

I had a wonderful editor for my first novel who was an absolute surgeon with words.

Mary Rosenblum

She took out LOTS of words from my scenes and if I read the scene without comparing it to the original I could not tell what she had removed.

Mary Rosenblum

Needless to say, I got a crash course in clean writing and clutter! :-)

Mary Rosenblum

Never once did she change content or effect, tone, or nuance.

Mary Rosenblum

She just removed clutter.

Mary Rosenblum

An excellent exercise is choose something that you wrote some time ago. Now sit down and go over it sentence by sentence.

Mary Rosenblum

At every sentence ask yourself 'can I say this in a simpler way'? If so, change it.

Mary Rosenblum

Then read it over and fix the places where you feel it needs more, or the sentences are choppy, or what have you.

Mary Rosenblum

Then compare the two. See how many words total you've removed.

Mary Rosenblum

It might not be a lot or it might be a ton.

Mary Rosenblum

Ken Rand's 10% solution is all about removing clutter.

Mary Rosenblum

He offers some specific methods, using your 'find' feature on your computer.

Mary Rosenblum

I've had some students who have removed more like 20% with that book and have gone instantly from not-publishable to publishable.

Mary Rosenblum

Even if you're writing something in literary style, say a personal narrative, you still need to watch that clutter.

Mary Rosenblum

Because that language is going to be more complex, more heavily weighted with literary devices, clutter can really obscure the effect.

Mary Rosenblum

Now, let me introduce one caveat here.

Mary Rosenblum

Dialogue is its own thing.

Mary Rosenblum

People talk like they talk.

Mary Rosenblum

They use bad grammar. They use cluttered and convoluted speech.

Mary Rosenblum

All rules are off where dialogue is concerned!

geezer

An example of a literary device?

Mary Rosenblum

Like metaphor or simile, onomatopoeia (I spelled it wrong, I know, don't throw rocks!)

Mary Rosenblum

For some GREAT examples of literary done badly (on purpose) read the Bulwer-Lytton Fiction contest results That's the 'Dark and Stormy Night' contest for who can overwrite the most.

Mary Rosenblum

It was a dark and stormy night; the rain fell in torrents--except at occasional intervals, when it was checked by a violent gust of wind which swept up the streets (for it is in London that our scene lies), rattling along the housetops, and fiercely agitating the scanty flame of the lamps that struggled against the darkness."

Mary Rosenblum

This is the famous quote from Bulwer-Lytton.

Mary Rosenblum

NICE example of clutter here. Literary clutter.

Mary Rosenblum

You should go check out their website. I LOVE it.

Mary Rosenblum

http://www.bulwer-lytton.com/

Mary Rosenblum

And don't laugh too hard. I have received novice manuscripts that while not quite so purple in the prose, weren't too far off !

geezer

So, at last! Literary means using flowery language?

Mary Rosenblum

No, no no!

Mary Rosenblum

It means that the style of the language is important to the story, creates a significant part of the impact

Mary Rosenblum

The plot and characters are not paramount.

rae

What is onomatopoeia?

Mary Rosenblum

words that suggest the sound the represent. Buzz. Sizzle. Hiss.

destiny8

Clutter pops out at me after I set ms aside for a few days.

Mary Rosenblum

Yeah, me, too, destiny.

Mary Rosenblum

Distance is a really useful tool. The more distance the better. :-)

Mary Rosenblum

I find that working on a new piece clears the piece I just finished out of my brain.

Mary Rosenblum

So when I go back to it, I see all the zits clearly. :-)

janecj333

And characters don't talk in neatly-punctuated and complete sentences.

Mary Rosenblum

They sure don't, Jane.

Mary Rosenblum

But that's all part of character voice -- another pretty common novice weakness and the subject of another forum. :-)

Mary Rosenblum

Try simplifying something you have written. See how much you can simplify each sentence, then smooth out any bumps and see if you don't end up with something shorter and stronger.

cajunbelle

and good thing because cajuns surely don't say " onomatopoea

Mary Rosenblum

LOL, belle, not unless their teaching at the university, eh?

Mary Rosenblum

Reducing clutter will go a LONG way toward getting you published, especially in the nonfiction marketplace.

Mary Rosenblum

It does more than you realize to blur and obscure your story or narrative.

Mary Rosenblum

Give it a try and see if you're not pleased with the result of reducing that clutter.

Mary Rosenblum

I'll post the transcript in the usual place:

Mary Rosenblum

Writing Craft: Forum Transcripts.

Mary Rosenblum

Have a fun Halloween tomorrow!

Mary Rosenblum

I'm off to the World Fantasy Conference Thursday, in Saratoga, NY.

Mary Rosenblum

Have a great weekend!

 

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