Forum Transcripts

Show, Don't Tell in First Person 5/13/08



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Questions from the Audience are presented in red.
Answers by the Speaker are in black.
The Moderator's comments are in blue.

Mary Rosenblum

Hello all!

Mary Rosenblum

Welcome to our Tuesday Lunchbox Forum.

Mary Rosenblum

I hope you all had a lovely Mother's Day weekend, whether you're a mother or not. :-)

Mary Rosenblum

I wanted to talk about 'show, don't tell' specifically related to a first person POV>

Mary Rosenblum

Most examples of 'show don't tell' in books on writing use third person.

Mary Rosenblum

But even when your POV character is telling the readers what is going on, you can have that POV voice show or tell.

Mary Rosenblum

Just as you can show events or tell the readers in third person.

Mary Rosenblum

It's perhaps even more of a balancing act in first person POV than in third, since you WANT the narrator to expand on the actions and dialogue that 'show' a third person POV story.

Mary Rosenblum

In fact if your narrator only tells readers what is going on, it's going to be a very weak first person story.

Mary Rosenblum

Same thing with personal narrative where YOU are the narrator, the first person voice.

Mary Rosenblum

This is usually where I see my greatest lack of 'showing' and the personal narrative really suffers because of that.

sss1208

and why not?

Mary Rosenblum

Why not what, sss?

Mary Rosenblum

Ah, sorry...]

Mary Rosenblum

I think this question was hanging around from the last forum!

rae

"Hello," I asked, putting my hand to the side of what I thought must be its face. I didn't want to laugh but couldn't help myself. Show or tell?

Mary Rosenblum

This is very nice showing, rae.

Mary Rosenblum

We see the narrator putting her hand on the side of the thing's supposed face.

Mary Rosenblum

And we also get the narrator's internal commentary. She didn't want to laugh but couldn't help herself.

Mary Rosenblum

So we see her action and her reaction suggests that this thing looks REALLY silly.

Mary Rosenblum

What I often see is: "Hello," I said. I didn't want to laugh but couldn't help myself.

Mary Rosenblum

Here, we have the internal commentary that suggests the thing looks funny or strange.

Mary Rosenblum

But we don't SEE the scene.

Mary Rosenblum

We don't see action.

Mary Rosenblum

This is the missing piece to so much personal narrative and first person POV.

Mary Rosenblum

It is just as important in first person to show the readers the scene as it is in third person.

Mary Rosenblum

The reason, I suspect, that the scene is so often missing in personal narrative espeically, is that the writer is so completely aware

Mary Rosenblum

of that scene he/she is commenting on that it doesn't occur to that person that the visuals don't automatically translate.

Mary Rosenblum

But...they don't!

Mary Rosenblum

So a strong first person narrative, fiction or personal narrative, needs to constantly refresh the scene...that is, constantly add bits of visual information

Mary Rosenblum

so that the readers see the action as well as hear the narrator's commentary. Remember...in real life we see and hear simultaneously.

Mary Rosenblum

So we need to create that same effect on the page.

Mary Rosenblum

I headed down Main Street, keeping a sharp eye out for Diego. He had good reason to be sore at me and I carried a nice clear memory of the

Mary Rosenblum

last time he was sore at me. Never mind a scar or two. As I reached Lanners Pharmacy my stomach reminded me that I hadn't bothered with breakfast this morning

Mary Rosenblum

so I ducked through the ancient glass doors and headed for the soda fountain at the back of the store. The formica might be faded and cigarette burned

Mary Rosenblum

but Bert's coffee could wake the dead.

Mary Rosenblum

So as our narrator talks, we are reminded that we're on Main street, we reach Lanner's Pharmacy, see the ancient glass doors and a faded and cigarette burned formica soda fountain.

Mary Rosenblum

Readers will fill in the interior of the store, the street scene and the like.

Mary Rosenblum

Now if our character had been out for a Sunday stroll and not nervously watching for someone who might cause bodily harm

Mary Rosenblum

I could have showed a lot more of the street.

Mary Rosenblum

THis is the limitation of First Person POV. (Did I mention it is much harder to do first person well than it is to do third person?)

Mary Rosenblum

If your POV character does not have reason to notice details....you can't show those details to the readers.

Mary Rosenblum

If our POV claims to be worried about getting beat up by Diego and then spends paragraphs rhapsodizing about the hanging flower baskets on the lamp posts and the green striped

Mary Rosenblum

awnings over the store windows that give the town a nice nostalgic look, you've violated your characteriztion.

Mary Rosenblum

Either our POV isn't really worried about Diego at all, or the author has stepped into the POV's skin and is calling the shots. Oops.

rae

When is it appropriate to show a lot of detail? I mean, a person doesn't always notice everything about a room they enter, but they do notice somethings. Even a blind person notices certain things.

Mary Rosenblum

Gemerally, you notice 'difference'in a familiar place. If I arrive home and a strange coat is hanging on my rocking chair, someone has been here or is here.

Mary Rosenblum

And suddenly I"ll see things.

Mary Rosenblum

And often, shock or emotional distress can make a familiar place look strange.

Mary Rosenblum

I walked the last four blocks in the pouring rain and let myself into the lobby of my apartment. Sally was gone. It seemed like only yesterday we were sitting in the old apple tree planning out our lives. She was

Mary Rosenblum

going to be a movie star and I was going to be a jockey. I stared at the black and white marble tile and the grimy stone staircase. Cobwebs hung like dusty rags from the grimy old chandelier and I noticed the dirt of ages packed into the corners by the landlords mildewy hair mop. How

Mary Rosenblum

the heck had I ended up here, living in a third flood walk up, cooking on a hot plate?

Mary Rosenblum

Our POV having just lost a childhood friend suddenly sees his apartment lobby with new eyes, noticing all the shabby details that are a metaphor for a

Mary Rosenblum

life that didn't live up to his childhood dreams.

gail

Do you think writing limited-3rd POV is good practice for eventually trying 1st POV?

Mary Rosenblum

Yes, actually.

Mary Rosenblum

If you write VERY strong limited third POV with absolutly NO narrative distance, it's very hard to tell from first person

Mary Rosenblum

But there's no reason not to begin with first person and simply work at making it better.

Mary Rosenblum

The problem is that a lot of folks get told in high school that first person is the 'natural story telling voice' but that doesn't mean that all

Mary Rosenblum

first person is automatically GOOD!

Mary Rosenblum

First person is a delicate balance of action as described by the narrator and the narrator's amplification of that action through internal commentary.

Mary Rosenblum

A first person piece that is nothing but a description of action and quotted dialogue might as well have been written in third...and SHOULD have been written in third.

Mary Rosenblum

But a piece that's all internal narrative with no sense of any physical here and now is most of the time very boring.

Mary Rosenblum

We only want to listen to someone's thoughts for so long before we get restless.

Mary Rosenblum

If you want to read some excellent first person POV, try Raymond Chandler's Phillip Marlow books.

Mary Rosenblum

They have plenty of visual action and they have a strong narrative voice. Chandler is an excellent writer and the balance is very strong.

Mary Rosenblum

Just as in third person show body language rather than letting your POV tell uis everything.

Mary Rosenblum

Sometimes saying 'she was upset' is what you need.

Mary Rosenblum

But much of the time, let your POV and your readers figure out the basics simultaneously, then let your narrator add important amplification that your readers won't know.

rae

"Since my accident, I've come to understand a little better how you must feel not being able to do things." I rolled my wheelchair closer to the table so I could reach the thing's ears. "I wish I knew how you came to drop in on me like this."

Mary Rosenblum

That's very nice, rae.

Mary Rosenblum

We have an instant 'here and now' of a room, a table, and that POV in the wheelchair.

Mary Rosenblum

This is the 'told' version of that:

Mary Rosenblum

"Since my accident, I"ve come to understand a little better how you must feel not being able to do things." I had been in a wheelchair for five years now, ever since I rolled my car on that icy curve on Highway 12. "I wish I knew how you came to drop in on me like this," I told it.

Mary Rosenblum

We have even a bit more information but what do we SEE here?

Mary Rosenblum

Nada.

Mary Rosenblum

This is the most common type of first person I get.

Mary Rosenblum

It's all telling information to the readers but not bothering to create a visual here and now.

gail

I like Sue Grafton's 1st-P character, Kinsey Millhone -- very good sense of character through internal dialogue, and the action and settings are vividly detailed.

Mary Rosenblum

She's also good, although I think Chandler beats her by a nose. :-) Hardboiled PI has been pretty much defined by the likes of Phillip Marlow, Sam Spade, and the other early PIs.

Mary Rosenblum

It's nearly always first person.

Mary Rosenblum

And the bar in mystery is set pretty high so you can find some excellent first person examples.

Mary Rosenblum

If you're writing first person, go over each scene and ask yourself 'what does my reader see?'.

Mary Rosenblum

Try highlighting every visual detail. If you can't highlight any.... oops!

rae

Isn't it more difficult to do 1st person, than 3rd? At least, to do it well.

Mary Rosenblum

I think so.

Mary Rosenblum

You are much more limited in terms of visuals.

Mary Rosenblum

You can sneak in details that your POV probably wouldn't actually notice, as long as you don't flagrantly violate POV.

Mary Rosenblum

But in first person, where visual details are only noticed by your POV any 'extra' details violate POV quite obviously.

Mary Rosenblum

For this reason, you have to pay much more attention to how you structure your story. You need to 'set up' situations

Mary Rosenblum

where your POV character has reason to look around and smell the roses, so to speak.

rae

Can you give an example of "extra" details, please.

Mary Rosenblum

Sure.

Mary Rosenblum

Let's go back to our POV who is trying not to run into Diego.

Mary Rosenblum

I had just turned down Ivy, figuring I could go crash on Amy's sofa -- she'd keep her mouth shut -- when I saw him. Leaning against her porch rail cleaning his nails with

Mary Rosenblum

his shiv. Damn. I did a quick about turn but he was watching for me. I cut right down Main, ducked into the alley. The third board from the left in the fence at the end is loose. I ducked through, praying he didn't know about it. Six feet of board fence should slow him down some. The rat terrier was out and

Mary Rosenblum

came snapping at my heels as I ducked under the clothesline and vaulted the low picket fence. Mrs. Belton was in her front yard of course and she jumped up screeching, waving her grass shears at me. Her yard is really nice, one of those

Mary Rosenblum

perfectly manicured little postcard pictures with the velvet green lawn, the beds of petunias all pinck and white, not a shriveled blossom showing,

Mary Rosenblum

and the obligatory bird bath -- a white shell of course -- out front. Then there's the yellow painted porch with the white porch swing. All you need is a tray with a glass pitcher of lemonade and two glasses

Mary Rosenblum

and it's right out of Norman Rockwell. I dashed past as she thrust at me. Maybe she'd spear Diego. Vaulted over her front fence and bolted acrosst he street, praying as horns blared. Hit the sidewalk and blasted past some shoppers and into Pete's arcade.

Mary Rosenblum

Okay, here we have a chase scene...our POV is running for his hide from Diego. But when we get to Mrs. Belton's front yard, the action freezes and our POV describes her yard in detail.

Mary Rosenblum

Then the film starts up again and we're running again.

Mary Rosenblum

Now you can use this as an intentional effect and make it the style of the piece. But if you just do it, as I did it here, it creates this jerky freeze-motion-freeze-motion type of pace which is very artificial.

Mary Rosenblum

Where it CAN work is if you're doing something in the literary spectrum where you don't particularly want readers to engage with the story and you're focusing on style and effect instead.

rae

So it is still all stuff he either knows, sees, or is thinking about, right?

Mary Rosenblum

Or hears.

Mary Rosenblum

We don't have dialogue in this, but he hears Mrs. Belton screeching at him. He's way too busy worrying about Diego to pay attention to WHAT she is screeching.

Mary Rosenblum

Now if he was strolling down the street on a sunny Sunday without a care, then that description of Mrs. Belton's yard would be quite appropriate.

Mary Rosenblum

It might be a marvelous way to reveal his attitude about the town and its residents, depending on what he has to say.

Mary Rosenblum

One big weakness I see a lot is when our first person narrator suddenly ends up in a fight or excape situation

Mary Rosenblum

but the readers have no clue what is going on. So as he/she is busy fighting off three sword-waving brigands, that narrator

Mary Rosenblum

is also filling us in about the Duke and his henchmen and how they control this stretch of highway and prey on the peasants.

Mary Rosenblum

And I'm always SO impressed because when I was fencing (and not even worried about getting a sword point between my ribs!) I sure couldn't keep up

Mary Rosenblum

a coherent conversation while trying to keep my opponent's foil-tip off my vest!

Mary Rosenblum

I was WAY too busy.

Mary Rosenblum

So if you're going to pitch your first person POV into a fight for his/her life, for pete's sake give that poor person the opportunity

Mary Rosenblum

to give the readers enough backstory so that the character isn't trying to explain the situation while fighting for his/her life!

Mary Rosenblum

That is SO contrived and phony!

crystalwizard

and exhausting ;)

Mary Rosenblum

That, too. And I hate to say it...as I'm sure you see all too often, wiz...it's practically a trope of bad fantasy stories! :-)

Mary Rosenblum

And again...nothing is 'never' in the writing world. And you can do some very clever and funny stuff with that Hero chatting with the readers

Mary Rosenblum

as he fights off a dozen attackers.

Mary Rosenblum

Just don't do it in a serious scene! Do it intentionally as a main stylistic element of the piece.

crystalwizard

it happens because the writer isn't in character and thus not IN the scene. They're detached and describing it from the cameraman's POV

Mary Rosenblum

Exactly.

Mary Rosenblum

Which is what the 'tell' part of 'show don't tell' is all about.

Mary Rosenblum

You step the readers out of the scene, away from the characters, and from a distance, fill in the information.

Mary Rosenblum

But all sense of realism is lost.

Mary Rosenblum

We have become observers.

Mary Rosenblum

That is the magic of prose fiction that can not be duplicated by TV and movies.

Mary Rosenblum

You watch TV or a movie, and while you get caught up in it, you're not there.

Mary Rosenblum

But really good fiction can suck you into that story so that you forget that you're not in that place and time.

rae

But you can't very well do 'opha' and 'ompha' to go witht he thrusts and jabs. How would you do a fight scene like that?

Mary Rosenblum

You mean the sounds, rae?

Mary Rosenblum

No, don't DO that! Nothing sillier than Pow!!!

Mary Rosenblum

BUT...

Mary Rosenblum

Readers will provide the sound effects just fine, the way they provide tone of voice, if you simply show them the visuals.

Mary Rosenblum

They'll fill in the obvious sounds.

Mary Rosenblum

Jeremy clenched his fists. "I"ve had enough."

Mary Rosenblum

You hear a particular tone of voice. I don't need to describe it.

Mary Rosenblum

Carl dove, hitting Salmon just above the knees. With a yell, he pitched forward into Granny Banks table full of pickles and jams. The table went down and glass jars cascaded to the concrete, spraying pickle juice everywhere.

Mary Rosenblum

Salmon came up wiping raspberrry preserves from his face. "You're gonna die for that."

Mary Rosenblum

Believe me, readers will hear everything they need to.

crystalwizard

The shock from my fist connecting with his jaw sent lights exploding behind my eyes. His head snapped back and he hit the ground with a thud.

Mary Rosenblum

There you go. We have the intensity of the blow and the following thud.

Mary Rosenblum

And actually, in the heat of a fight you're not going to hear much anyway.

Mary Rosenblum

You're focused on attack and response.

Mary Rosenblum

When we're in crisis, we develop tunnel vision. We see only what will save our butts.

Mary Rosenblum

Well, our time has whipped by today. :-)

Mary Rosenblum

I'll post this on the website in the usual place:

Mary Rosenblum

Writing Craft Forum Transcripts.

Mary Rosenblum

Nice examples of good showing, rae and wiz! Thanks!

 

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