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mary rosenblum
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Hello all.
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mary rosenblum
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Welcome to our Friday After
Hours Forum.
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and we're talking about the
realities of making a living, writing. I've published eight novels , more
than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any questions you
have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a
Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the
top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't
reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send
bar if that works better for you..
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mary rosenblum
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I hope you've all had a drier
week than we have. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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I'm still having a hard time
realizing that we're now in November.
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geezer
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Send some down to us
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mary rosenblum
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I will do my best, geeze.
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mary rosenblum
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I wanted to talk about the
realities of writing and money tonight, because 'quitting the day job' is
the ideal of most aspiring writers
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mary rosenblum
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and there's not a lot of hard
information out there about money, how long it takes to build a career, and
the like.
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mary rosenblum
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Well, Xana, I made your
question disappear somehow. Xana asked how many published writers actually
make a living at it.
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mary rosenblum
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Well, Xana, if you are talking
about ALL published writers, very very few. Many people make no effort to
make a living writing.
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mary rosenblum
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They might sell a story or a
personal narrative piece to a local magazine, but they don't work harder at
it than that.
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mary rosenblum
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You don't make a living
writing by writing something and sending it out once every three years,
that's for sure. :-)
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matashi
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How long did it take you to make
a living as a writer?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, I started supporting
myself by my writing about five years after I started writing seriously,
but we're talking poverty level income here.
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mary rosenblum
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And that's one of the main
issues you have to think about if you really want to quit the day job.
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mary rosenblum
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What is the lowest income you
are comfortable with?
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mary rosenblum
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If you only want to write if
you can live like Stephen King, forget it. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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You can count the writers who
make that kind of money on one hand with fingers left over.
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xana
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There are the matters of health
insurance and pension too.
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mary rosenblum
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Yep. I pay my own health
insurance. Any pension I have comes from money I put in the bank.
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mary rosenblum
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You don't do this to get rich,
believe me.
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mary rosenblum
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You also have to decide what
matters to you.
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mary rosenblum
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Is it more important to write
what YOU want to write, or is it more important to support yourself
writing?
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mary rosenblum
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If it's more important to make
that income you will...WILL...write things you don't love, but you get paid
for 'em.
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mary rosenblum
|
This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and we're talking about the
realities of making a living, writing. I've published eight novels , more
than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any questions you
have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a
Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the
top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't
reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send
bar if that works better for you..
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mary rosenblum
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That's a distinction that very
few books or workshops on 'making a living' address and you need to think
about it.
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mary rosenblum
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You won't be able to write
only what you want to write and support yourself unless you are very very
lucky, and like Rowling, end up with a blocbuster.
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mary rosenblum
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Doesn't happen very often.
Like lightning strikes, it's utterly unpredictable.
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sady
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What kind of short term goals
should I make on my way to becoming a full time writer?
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mary rosenblum
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First, decide on your goals.
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mary rosenblum
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What matters to you most?
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mary rosenblum
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Writing the novels you want to
write?
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mary rosenblum
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Making a living?
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mary rosenblum
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Now come up with a minimum
income that you must make in order to pay the bills and care for yourself
and your family.
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mary rosenblum
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They're stuck with your
lifestyle decision, remember. :-) My kids grew up pretty poor.
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mary rosenblum
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But they don't get into debt
and they survived fine without expensive jeans.
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matashi
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I think writing what you love is
the most important.
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mary rosenblum
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If that is what matters to you
most, matashi, that is a very sound goal and a good realization.
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mary rosenblum
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Write what you love, but don't
take out loans, expecting to pay them off with the money you'll make
writing what you love.
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xana
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Find a spouse that earns a
decent income :-)
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mary rosenblum
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That, folks, is THE best all
round career choice you can make. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Not that I've managed to
follow my own advice, but I really do envy the full time writers I know
with supportive spouses (who have health insurance!).
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geezer
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If you hate what you are writing
it probably won't be good
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mary rosenblum
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Absolutly. Ask
yourself...would I rather write this or would I rather work at the Post
Office and write what I want when I get home?
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sol
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Hey . . . my spouse does okay,
but he still frets . . . and so do I because . . .
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sol
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. . . I'm not contributing
enough to ease the stress. Sigh! . . .
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mary rosenblum
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Well, in your case, if you can
simply contribute to the family income, that will help.
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mary rosenblum
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Now.
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mary rosenblum
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Here's the kicker.
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mary rosenblum
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It is much harder to support
yourself in fiction than in nonfiction.
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mary rosenblum
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The nonfiction market is HUGE.
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mary rosenblum
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Editors have very clear and
simple needs.
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mary rosenblum
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It is not about the individual
author.
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mary rosenblum
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They simply have a magazine
that needs to be filled with competant articles and they will pay you to
fill them.
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mary rosenblum
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It is merely a matter of hard
work to make yourself a career in freelance nonfiction.
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mary rosenblum
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The fiction market is all
about reader enthusiasm.
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mary rosenblum
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If readers like your style,
your book makes money.
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sol
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. . . But I still don't want to
write just anything for anybody.
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mary rosenblum
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Then you really need to look
for a dayjob you can live with sol. Write what you love, send it out to
publishers, and hope that lightning strikes you
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mary rosenblum
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and you sell a blockbuster.
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mary rosenblum
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While we could all wish that
we could write when the muse dictates and we'd make a comfortable living,
that rarely rarely happens.
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sol
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How does a writer handle the
details of the business aspect? . . .
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mary rosenblum
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If you have taken the leap and
you are going to declare yourself a full time writer to the IRS (that's
what I do), then you should really find an accountant
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mary rosenblum
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who handles
writers/artists/muscians and let that person tell you what records to keep
and how.
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mary rosenblum
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The IRS hates writers, and I
bet our Canadian counterparts do, too.
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mary rosenblum
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Meticulous record keeping is
essential.
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mary rosenblum
|
This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and we're talking about the
realities of making a living, writing. I've published eight novels , more
than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any questions you
have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a
Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the
top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't
reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send
bar if that works better for you..
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sady
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If you were just starting out,
and wanted to write NF, what steps would you take?
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mary rosenblum
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Sady, it's a matter of
breaking in. Choose several magazines that you think you could write for
pretty easily.
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mary rosenblum
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Either you have an interest in
their topics or you have some personal experience, or you know a lot of
people you can interview.
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mary rosenblum
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Now do the homework. Read a
year's worth of back issues. Yes. A year's worth.
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mary rosenblum
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What has the editor published?
(Don't query on that topice).
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mary rosenblum
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What is the style of the
magazine? Who are the readers?
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mary rosenblum
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Now start querying.
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mary rosenblum
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Bet you that you get a yes
before you've queried too many times and get your first assignment from the
editor within a few months.
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mary rosenblum
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Editors can tell when you've
done your homework and that tell's em you're a pro.
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unicorn
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You are right Mary. Revenue
Canada doesn't like writers
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mary rosenblum
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I figured not. :-) No tax
service does.
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xana
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There must be at least one good
book out there on what kinds of records writers should keep and how to keep
them. Any recommendations?
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mary rosenblum
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Go read the transcript of my
interview with John Caton, my own accountant.
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mary rosenblum
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He had some recommendations
for what to keep and how to organize things.
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kayjay
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Where would you look for those
mags?
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mary rosenblum
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Try libraries, Kayjay.
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mary rosenblum
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Write to the publisher and ask
for several back issues. It's going to cost you money, but it's a business
expense.
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mary rosenblum
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Watch rummage sales. Just buy
issues at the bookstore for a few months until you get a feel for the
magazine.
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sol
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Why don't they like writers?
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mary rosenblum
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The expenses and income are
kind of 'fuzzy' and many writers keep very bad records.
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mary rosenblum
|
This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and we're talking about the
realities of making a living, writing. I've published eight novels , more
than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any questions you
have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a
Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the
top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't
reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send
bar if that works better for you..
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peacerose
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Is it best to wait for an editor
to tell you what to write
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mary rosenblum
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Peace, at first, in NF, you'll
have to prove yourself to the editor -- that you can write.
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mary rosenblum
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Once you have lots of clips
you're better off, but you'll still have to send in a proposal to make your
first sale.
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mary rosenblum
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Often, the editor will ask for
a different piece.
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mary rosenblum
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I sent in a query to a dog
magazine recently. The editor didn't want that particular piece, but she
asked for two other articles.
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mary rosenblum
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YOu'll be choosing the topice
you propose. But as with the dog mag, the editor may ask for something
else.
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mary rosenblum
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Now if you have no clips, that
probably won't happen. The editor will just say no thanks.
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mary rosenblum
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She can't afford the risk that
you won't turn in the piece on deadline.
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mary rosenblum
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But once you have sold
something to her, she'll feel freer to ask you for specific pieces.
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mary rosenblum
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And then, when you have sold a
few ...usually VERY few...pieces to the editor, you'll get an email or call
asking you to do a specific piece.
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mary rosenblum
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Editors hand out assignments
to their regular writers all the time.
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aelle
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strange question, I know, but
what kind of dogs do you have?
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mary rosenblum
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Hi, aelle. :-) I have
Rottweilers, do obedience, tracking, and herding with 'em.
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mary rosenblum
|
This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and we're talking about the
realities of making a living, writing. I've published eight novels , more
than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any questions you
have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a
Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the
top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't
reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send
bar if that works better for you..
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charie'
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What percentage should you put
aside from earnings to pay taxes?
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mary rosenblum
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If you're going to live on
what you make writing, you will live the VERY scary existance of no regular
paycheck.
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mary rosenblum
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That means budgeting is
critical.
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mary rosenblum
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You have to know exactly how
much you need for taxes, utlities, insurance, and whatever is left over,
you can use to buy groceries. :-)
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dim writer
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Heal is asking what are clips
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mary rosenblum
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Oh, sorry, heal.
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mary rosenblum
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'clips' are examples of your
published articles.
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mary rosenblum
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They used to be literally
'clipped out' of the magazine with scissors. Now you can copy a piece
easily.
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mary rosenblum
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It shows the editor that you
CAN write a publishable article.
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heal
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Do you send clips in with a
query
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, nearly all NF guidelines
will instruct you to include clips. You don't need to send in ALL your
clips if you have lots.
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mary rosenblum
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You can send in a couple of
the most pertinent and list a few others.
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mary rosenblum
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For fiction, always list your
published stories. You don't need to...should not...send copies of those.
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geezer
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I got my first reject. It said
we can't use this. Does that mean it stinks or just what the said?
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mary rosenblum
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Means what it says, geeze.
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mary rosenblum
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Most publishers have a 'it
stinks' version. Don't worry. That's not it.
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sady
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If my article is in an online
magazine, would I send a printout or just give a link?
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mary rosenblum
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If you're querying by email,
you can include the live link. Make sure the piece is still up. If you're
querying by letter, include a printout.
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mary rosenblum
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The way you make money in
fiction is from reprints...you get your published stories into anthologies.
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mary rosenblum
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It's also in writing for
invitation.
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mary rosenblum
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You get invited to contribute
original work to anthologies and they usually pay good money.
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mary rosenblum
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You write novels that stay in
print and pay royalties. THAT you have no direct control over. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Most publishers no longer keep
a 'mid list' so the traditional NY houses let books go out of print
quickly, unless the sales are very good.
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heal
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Would clips include a national
newsletter
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mary rosenblum
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Absolutely, heal.
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geezer
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How do I get an invitation?
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mary rosenblum
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Sell good stories that get
reviews and attention in the publishing world, geeze.
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mary rosenblum
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Watch for 'open' anthologies.
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mary rosenblum
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The editor wont' entirely fill
most antholgies with invitations and will have slots open for others.
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mary rosenblum
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These pay less, but they're a
place to get published.
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mary rosenblum
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And usually the anthologies
will be reviewed, so you can get some exposure.
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mary rosenblum
|
This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and we're talking about the
realities of making a living, writing. I've published eight novels , more
than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any questions you
have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a
Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the
top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't
reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send
bar if that works better for you..
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mary rosenblum
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In the NF market, start small.
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mary rosenblum
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The small circulation
magazines don't pay much, but they are desperate for good writers, and it's
relatively easy to break in.
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mary rosenblum
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Then you have clips.
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mary rosenblum
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Keep moving up.
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mary rosenblum
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Query larger and larger
magazines. As you step up that ladder, your money will grow.
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mary rosenblum
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You want to establish yourself
with the top magazines.
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dim writer
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Where would you find that info
Mary? On anthologies?
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mary rosenblum
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Watch the writers lists.
Become an associate member of your genre organization (SFWA MWA HWA etc) so
that you get their newsletter.
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mary rosenblum
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That often has a market list
section (MWA is awful, SFWA is pretty good.)
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mary rosenblum
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Watch my new market updates
topic on the LR website.
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mary rosenblum
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Realize that you will make
more money doing something else. :-) Do it because you'd rather do this and
be poor than do something else and make more money. There is NO other
reason to do it.
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mary rosenblum
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Me, I LOVE my commute and
precarious as my life has been at various times, I wouldn't trade this for
anything.
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mary rosenblum
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So I'm crazy. :-)
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charie'
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What sort of time frame do the
NF editors expect for you to provide the article?
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mary rosenblum
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Frequently quite quickly,
charie. Like a couple of weeks. Don't query unless you have all your ducks
in a row first.
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mary rosenblum
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Sometimes it's like a few
days!
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mary rosenblum
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The editor might have a slot
in the next issue....if you can fill it for her with a three day
turnaround, she'll owe you, and you'll get a plum from her next time.
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mary rosenblum
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Never say now.
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mary rosenblum
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oops.
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mary rosenblum
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Never say no.
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mary rosenblum
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When I get an anthology
invitation, I say yes.
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mary rosenblum
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I'll figure out a story to fit
it later!
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mary rosenblum
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When I get a NF article lead,
I go for it.
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mary rosenblum
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If you meet someone you KNOW
would provide a saleable interview, schedule the interview now and query
editors later.
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aelle
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Do contests help you break in to
paying markets?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, yes and no, aelle.
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mary rosenblum
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A few very well known contests
like the Writers Digest contest and the Writers of the Future are big
enough and reputable enough that a win there
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mary rosenblum
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will at least get an editor's
attention.
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mary rosenblum
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But any contest win tells an
editor you were better than some other writers, at least.
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mary rosenblum
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But don't send to a contest
instead of a for pay market.
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mary rosenblum
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You're always better off with
a sale than a contest win.
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dim writer
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Do you write novels and short
stories at same time?
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mary rosenblum
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Oh yes. Currently, I have two
novels in progress (ch 8 on one ch 5 on the other) one mystery short story
and I got leaned on by the editor of Asimov's for
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mary rosenblum
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a new story, so make that one
mystery ss and one SF short story.
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mary rosenblum
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When I bog down on one, I work
on something else.
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mary rosenblum
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Let's talk about how to start
a NF career.
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sady
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Back to goals...Let's say I
wanted to set an interim goal for myself for year one. Probably earned
would not be feasible, maybe better to work toward x-number of submissions
or queries? (I'm rather goal-oriented.)
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mary rosenblum
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yes, sady.
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mary rosenblum
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Let's talk about starting that
NF career.
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mary rosenblum
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I would start by inventorying
your own areas of interest/expertise.
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mary rosenblum
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What do you do? Gardening?
Dogs? Parrots? Crafts? Sewing?
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mary rosenblum
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Decide that you will query at
least two magazines a week this year.
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mary rosenblum
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yeah. Two.
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mary rosenblum
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Or more.
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mary rosenblum
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Start 'clustering'.
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mary rosenblum
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Okay. Gardening.
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mary rosenblum
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Think 'tips' articles...many
mags have 'reader tip' departments. A well written submission introduces
you to the edtior even if it doesn't pay.
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mary rosenblum
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Do you have a fancy nursery
nearby?
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mary rosenblum
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Waht about an interview with
the owner?
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mary rosenblum
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Bet you can propose three or
four articles from that interview.
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mary rosenblum
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How about the local garden
store owner? Purchasing trends?
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mary rosenblum
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Pitch that to a magazine.
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mary rosenblum
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See what I mean?
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mary rosenblum
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Go at this logically...slant
allows you to use the same pool of information to write a number of
articles.
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mary rosenblum
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One of my students recently
sold six articles all based on ONE interview with an artist. Sold all six.
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mary rosenblum
|
This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and we're talking about the
realities of making a living, writing. I've published eight novels , more
than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any questions you
have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a
Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the
top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't
reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send
bar if that works better for you..
|
|
dim writer
|
Wow Mary. How do you seperate
them in yuor mind?
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mary rosenblum
|
Oh they're like alternate
universes, dim. I revise the previous few pages and by the time I come to
where I left off, I"m back in that world and those characters.
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charie'
|
Do you query the same idea to
similar magazines, hoping one will accept?
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mary rosenblum
|
No, charie. VERY dangerous. If
two editors say yes, the one you dissapoint will not buy from you again.
BAd move.
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mary rosenblum
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Query different slants to different
magazines. Sell them all.
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charie'
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Are you obligated to tell
competitors that you've sold other articles on the same subject?
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mary rosenblum
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YOU are obligated to not sell
the same slant in the same sales arena, charie.
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mary rosenblum
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You can sell six different
gardening articles with different slants and they can all appear on the
same bookstore shelves at the same time.
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mary rosenblum
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No problem.
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mary rosenblum
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Your contract with the mag
usually stipulates that you cannot publish the same slant within a certain
period of time of this article's publication.
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charie'
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Then how did the person sell six
articles from the same interview?
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mary rosenblum
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One was on the artist's
challenges as a woman.
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mary rosenblum
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One was on the technique she
used...sold to a mag for artists.
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mary rosenblum
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One was her bio for a regional
mag.
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mary rosenblum
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One was on the art exhibition
that she exhibited in.
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mary rosenblum
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The other two were slightly
different, too. Magazine articles are VERY narrow.
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mary rosenblum
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It's VERY easy to sell three
to five articles from one pool of information.
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charie'
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Sounds like the author was VERY
creative.
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mary rosenblum
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Once you understand just how
narrow the mag market is, it's VERY easy to be inventive.
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mary rosenblum
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Let's look at lilacs.
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mary rosenblum
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I'll sell article one: an
interview with a local lilac breeder. (And that's my info pool)
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mary rosenblum
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Article two: new varieties of
lilacs coming out.
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mary rosenblum
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Article three: Lilac diseases
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mary rosenblum
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Article Four: Overwintering
woes.
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mary rosenblum
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Article five: Fertlizing for
maximum bloom
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mary rosenblum
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All to different magazines.
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aelle
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So until you have clips, you
write and send in the article?
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mary rosenblum
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Usually you will be asked to
query, aelle.
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mary rosenblum
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If you have no clip, send a
'writing sample'.
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mary rosenblum
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But you know what?
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mary rosenblum
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If you look at mags that pay
very little or pay nothing, you can get published. Write a really good
article and you have a clip
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mary rosenblum
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even if you didn't get a check
for it.
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mary rosenblum
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Send that clip.
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sol
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These examples are very helpful!
Makes it clear.
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mary rosenblum
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The THE real key to succeeding
in NF is understanding slant, sol.
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mary rosenblum
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Once you have slant, you can
sell.
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mary rosenblum
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It only requires competant
writing. But if you don't understand slant, you'll be writing stuff that is
too broad for the mag.
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mary rosenblum
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Think of your information pool
as a wedge of cheese.
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mary rosenblum
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Now use a cheese planer to
slice of very very thin slices. There you are.
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mary rosenblum
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Mostly the reality of making a
living is:
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mary rosenblum
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In Nonfiction...do your
homework...read back issues.
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mary rosenblum
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Send out queries constantly.
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mary rosenblum
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Start small and work up.
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mary rosenblum
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Keep good records! Always
ALWAYS make that deadline even if you pay to Fedex the copy.
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mary rosenblum
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For Fiction
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mary rosenblum
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Define your goals.
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mary rosenblum
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Do you want to write what YOU
want to write?
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mary rosenblum
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Then keep your day job.
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mary rosenblum
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Otherwise write the best you
can and keep writing and submitting until you find your niche. Then write
whatever a publisher will pay you to write. Whatever it is.
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mary rosenblum
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Do not sit back and wait for
something to sell before you start the next project.
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mary rosenblum
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The reality is that you will
work as hard as a writer as you would at any other job. That's why you
should love to do it. :-0
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mary rosenblum
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(actually, you may work
harder!).
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mary rosenblum
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But the commute is great. :-)
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charie'
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How many hours should you write
if you can't afford to quit your day job?
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mary rosenblum
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As many as you can ,charie.
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mary rosenblum
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When I had two kids at home as
a single mom, I wrote until I literally fell asleep at the keyboard at
night
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mary rosenblum
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and at dawn, before the kids
got up. And in every spare second when I didn't have both hands full.
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mary rosenblum
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The more hours you spend, the
more likely you are to start selling.
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mary rosenblum
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Practice counts.
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sady
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And you can work in your
jammies!
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mary rosenblum
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Or without them heheh.
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mary rosenblum
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The myth is that you can write
a few hours and make a fortune.
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mary rosenblum
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As I said earlier, it can
happen. So can getting struck by lightning. Don't bank on it.
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charie'
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With bunny slippers!
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mary rosenblum
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There you go. The image is
getting funnier by the second.
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info
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When you do have your hands
full, you're still writing by plotting the next part of the story,right?
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mary rosenblum
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Yeah. A part of my brain is
busy with my chapter five right now. Soon as I get off here, I'll go back
to that Word document sitting right behind this chat page.
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sol
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Thanks, Mary! You make me laugh
and give me hope.
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mary rosenblum
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Hope is a critical part of
writing,sol. So is a LOT of hard work. The more you write the better you
will get, the more likely you are to sell.
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mary rosenblum
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That is the chain of success.
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mary rosenblum
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never quit hoping. Lots of
people had very slow starts and blossomed later.
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mary rosenblum
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The market shifts, and
suddenly what you're writing is hot.
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mary rosenblum
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Well, I'll post this in the
usual place.
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mary rosenblum
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Writing Craft: Forum
Transcripts.
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mary rosenblum
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Do join us Sunday for our
casual get together.
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mary rosenblum
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RIght here, same time as the
Forum.
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mary rosenblum
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We just talk about whatever.
It's lots of fun.
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mary rosenblum
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Thanks for coming, all!
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mary rosenblum
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Go write. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Ah, Charie, I caught that.
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mary rosenblum
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Horizons is officially out on
Monday, as I recall.
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mary rosenblum
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It shipped this week, so it
should be on the shelves.
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mary rosenblum
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It might be in some stores
now.
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mary rosenblum
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See you all Sunday.
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