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Mary Rosenblum
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Good morning, all!
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Mary Rosenblum
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I hope you all had a good
weekend. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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I wanted to talk about
character today...this is such a huge subject that we could come back to
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Mary Rosenblum
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some aspect of character over
and over again.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Creating realistic characters
is probably the greatest challenge to the fiction writer.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you can do it, your work
stands out in the slush pile and also on the bookshelf.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And so much of that creating
is yet another variation on the theme of 'show, don't tell'.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Revealing character emotion is
always tough.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's easy for your POV
character.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That character's thoughts will
reveal their state of mind clearly, although even there
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Mary Rosenblum
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you don't want to overuse
internal narrative or it will bog down your scene.
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Mary Rosenblum
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So often, even with a POV
character, you need to reveal that character's emotions through action.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And of course, if you want the
reader to know a non-POV character, you either have to reveal that emotion
through dialogue
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Mary Rosenblum
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or action or switch
POV...which is almost never a good thing.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The best way to do it is
simply through body language.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You can nearly always guess a
person's emotional state of mind from the facial expression or body
language.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You may not be aware of doing
so, but if you start paying attention to people, you'll quickly find that
we have universal 'signs' of emotion.
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hauckston
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Why is it almost never a good
thing? Because it is too
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Mary Rosenblum
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Switching POV hauckston?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Every time you switch POV, you
kick your reader out of the story for a bit. It takes some time for readers
to 'settle into' the new POV. So if you switch POV frequently, as in
omniscient third POV, you
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Mary Rosenblum
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keep your reader very
distanced from all the characters. If the success of the story depends on
the readers caring about one or more characters
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Mary Rosenblum
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you can shoot yourself in the
foot that way.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If the story is strongly plot
driven and we don't have to care about any individual character, you can
get away with it.
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gskearney
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We get so much information from
facial expression, but how do you show that without bogging down in
exposition? --gk
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Mary Rosenblum
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Good point, gsk. Facial
expression reveals a lot, but if you have to stop and describe it in
several sentences, you're going to halt the forward momentum of the story
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Mary Rosenblum
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and if it's a taut action
scene, that's a problem.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Generally, it's best to stick
to a single detail that can be swiftly included; he grimaced, she winked,
he raised one eyebrow, she bit her lip.
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janecj333
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A scowl can mean so many things,
tho...
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Mary Rosenblum
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But you would never throw it
in so out of context that we couldn't understand its meaning jane.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The scowl, in the context of
this particular scene means what it means.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It might mean confusion, it
might mean buiding rage, it might mean uncertainty.
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Mary Rosenblum
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We'll know because of what
else is happening.
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cosmos
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Is there a really good reference
book on body language or a dictionary of body language?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, no, and jane's question
and my answer is the reason, cosmos.
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Mary Rosenblum
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A single bit of body
language...clenched fists...can mean many things.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Hey, next time you're in the
checkout line, a doctor's waiting room, a mall food court, pay attention.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Those are great places to
watch people.
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dim writer
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Same with nervous ticks Mary?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Nervous ticks are kind of
problematical dim. A lot of very poor books on writing tell novices
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Mary Rosenblum
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to use them to give characters
'individuality'. So you have two dimensional characters who
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Mary Rosenblum
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go around tugging on their hair
or nervously biting their lips and just as it can annoy
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Mary Rosenblum
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someone in real life, it can
annoy readers. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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You really don't need them to
give your character 'individuality' believe me!
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Mary Rosenblum
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But if your character has one,
use it sparingly!
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grayalien
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Mary, is it better to include
the facial expression description along with a speaker tag, or by itself?
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you can leave 'said' out of
the text, do so! Facial expression and body langauge make great action
tags!
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Mary Rosenblum
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No said needed.
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Mary Rosenblum
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"Maybe you're
right." She narrowed her eyes. "You'd better be."
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Mary Rosenblum
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I could add 'she said as...'
But why?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Extra words. Empty words.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Remember...the more instantly
words translate to images in the readers' minds, the stronger your prose.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Unless you're writing literary
prose where style is more important than story.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Most of time I see POV
switches in novice fiction, the writer could have let us guess everything
he/she thought needed to be revealed by that POV switch.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And remember...if you're
writing in first person, let your POV be an aware and savvy observer.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I watched Duke think about my
proposal. I could tell he wasn't happy.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Your POV noticed the body
language so you don't have to describe it.
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dim writer
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What about crying? they could be
faking.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And they often are faking. And
it's up to YOU to give the readers and your POV a clue.
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Mary Rosenblum
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"Why isn't that
funny." She laughed, a bit too shrilly.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Her too shrill laugh will make
us (and your POV) question her reaction.
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tolkienlvr
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Mary - can you give us some tips
or examples of how to effectively move a character from a sad or angry
scene into a totally different emotion (happy, excited) in a way that is
believable? In a novel I'm revising have character who throughout the story
is dealing with both anger & sadness over dad's murder, and excitement
over an important contest he's won at the same time. It seems rushed to end
one ch. on a sad note, and shift the MC into a more happy emot. state in
the next chapters - are there techniques you use to include these realistic
shifts in emotions without making the character seem flat or fickle? Any
tips? Examples? Thanks!
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Mary Rosenblum
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You're right, Tolkien, that's
a tough emotional rollercoaster and it does take work to make it seem believable.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Generally, you can find some
kind of similar 'character' example in your own experience. We've all had
experiences
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Mary Rosenblum
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where something shadowed our
lives at the same time something good happened.
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Mary Rosenblum
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We just lost a job but won a
contest.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Generally, if you think about
it, people vascillate from happy to sad quickly...you might be thinking
about the new car you can now afford with the contest win money
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Mary Rosenblum
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only to remember that you have
no job and you shouldn't spend it that way.
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Mary Rosenblum
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What will seem 'fake' is if
your character is entirely happy for a whole chapter or scene without ever
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Mary Rosenblum
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thinking of the dark issue,
and then falls into sadness for an entire scene.
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janecj333
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I almost always use pov switches
when I change a scene and the previous pov is not present, usually
different 'sets' of characters that will come together geographically
later. I do worry abt how many of these the reader can tolerate.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It depends, Jane. You see that
a lot in classic quest fantasy, but especially when authors use a large
number of POV characters, it really does keep the reader from
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Mary Rosenblum
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becoming intimate with any
character. We're constantly switching from one to a new one without
continuity.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It just depends on how much
time with spend with a particular character. It can have the effect of
omniscient POV if the cast of POV characters is large enough
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Mary Rosenblum
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effectively distancing us from
all of them.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Then you have to depend on a
strong plot and enough action to carry the story.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you think about how you
become friends with someone...close friends...in the real world
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Mary Rosenblum
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most people become close
friends as they get to know that person well. They find many similarities
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Mary Rosenblum
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qualities they admire, that
person is someone they relax around and care about.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Just as it takes some time for
most people to become close friends in real life, it takes some time for
readers to become 'close friends' with a character.
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hauckston
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I worry about making things too
simplistic or too complicated for the reader, however I tend to read
everything out loud and if it rolls off the tongue, then I find it works.
However, I do head~hop.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, head hopping is pretty
typical in literary mainstream, hauckston, but there, reader/character
intimacy is rarely important, while plot and style are.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It depends on what you're
writing as to whether head hopping is hurting you or not. But reading out
loud is a great way to get a feel for the flow of your language.
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Mary Rosenblum
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One thing to watch for,
though, is that your language can flow, but still be so convoluted and full
of excess words that the readers
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Mary Rosenblum
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essentially have to read the
passage, figure it out, and then see the image.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That is going to work against
you in just about any genre but literary mainstream.
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dim writer
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What is head-hoping? Never heard
that before
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Mary Rosenblum
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Head hopping, dim, is when you
simply use all your characters as POV characters and skip from POV to POV
constantly.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's generally not an
effective means of writing fiction, except in some limited cases.
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hauckston
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That is also why I use a few
people whom I can bounce it off. And I'm learning about being too wordy! I
have that verbal diarrhea going on
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Mary Rosenblum
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LOL everybody does at first,
hauckston! We ALL love the sound of our own voices or we wouldn't bother to
try and get other people to read it. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's the long step between
novice and pro...learning what really works.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's harder than you think.
:-)
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hauckston
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Nope, it is not harder than I
think... 'cause I know that it fills me with consternation when I try to
cut my words
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Mary Rosenblum
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It is hard to learn to let go
of your words, huackston. I had Orson Scott Card as a teacher when I first
started writing. One piece of stern advice filled me with horror.
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Mary Rosenblum
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He told me to find the scene
that I liked best in whatever I was working on and cut it out. Delete it.
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Mary Rosenblum
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He had reason for that advice.
:-) I didn't always do it. I often found later on that I wish I had. LOL
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hauckston
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and still try to get the same
flow.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Sorry...I didn't get the final
bit of your comment.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Yeah, changing the words does
change the flow.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's why I personally don't
edit for flow and rhythm until I am ALL done making content changes.
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tory
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Why is that advice so good, Mary.
Do we like one so well BECAUSE it doesn't help it's just ours?
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Mary Rosenblum
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His reasoning is that when you
like something you lose your objectivity and you keep it whether it belongs
or not.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I have to say that looking
back later at some of my early work, I do find that the scene I thought was
such a gem at the time really should have been done differently.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Not always but sometimes. It's
pretty extreme advice...
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Mary Rosenblum
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but the main purport is that
the story matters, not the words.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Words are just the Lego pieces
you use to build the castle.
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tarsus
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Suppose you find yourself
sticking with only one POV in all your stories. Does that mean you're not
growing as a writer, or just staying with what works?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, I would say, Tarsus, that it's
always a good idea to try something that makes you uncomfortable regularly.
:-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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Nothing wrong with one POV. I
think all of my short fiction...that's over sixty published works so
far...are single POV. I use multiple in novel form.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Remember, you can experiment
with things that never get published, or don't satisfy you.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The more you try different
forms, styles, break the rules, the more you stretch and the more you push
the limits.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Many things won't work.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But you'll know a lot more
about writing by trying them.
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Mary Rosenblum
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There are many ways to tell a
story. Some ways work more easily than others, but that doens't mean you
should never try others.
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pook
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I have a short story with 2
POVs, one in the first part then the other. DO I have to end it with the
first POV coming back?
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Mary Rosenblum
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That entirely depends on what
the story needs, pook. It depends on what the story is about. It could work
either way.
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hauckston
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I for one, love all of my words.
But I know that they don't all belong in the same stories!
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Mary Rosenblum
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Oh, me, too, hauck. Took me
years before it didn't feel like surgery to remove em. :-) Now? No problem.
Gimme the pruning shears!
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janecj333
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What are the characteristics of
the scenes you like best?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Wow. That's an interesting
question. I would say, Jane, that the characteristics are the same for what
impresses me with a story of any length.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The semblance of
effortlessness...that character/action/setting all flow to a dramatic
conclusion without snags, with no sense of 'effort'...that is, you simply
know everything
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Mary Rosenblum
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you need to know and you're
not even aware of how you got that knowlege.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You simply observed what you
needed to observe.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's darn hard to do and
takes a LOT
of work!
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dim writer
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What if I want you to dislike
someone,but feel sorry for the
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's a marvelous character
challenge, dim. To create a negative character that the reader is forced to
sympathize with.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You simply give that negative
character enough humanity that we see more than just the negatives.
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Mary Rosenblum
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So many 'bad guys' are
cardboard cutouts of evil.
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Mary Rosenblum
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They have nothing to them but
nastiness. Very unrealistic.
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janecj333
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What you described sounds ideal.
So why get rid of it per Card's advice?
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Mary Rosenblum
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LOL jane, but what if perfect
though it is, it isn't right for the story, overpowers it? Doesn't belong?
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Mary Rosenblum
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I have never followed anyone's
advice slavishly, but I HAVE deleted scenes that sure felt perfect to me
(groaning all the while) for the very reasons I just mentioned.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But as far as the
negative/positive character, dim...give that person some traits that are
NOT simply evil.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You can have a man who has a
short temper and when he gets drunk he slaps his son around. Nasty guy.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But he can be someone with a
hard drinking family history of violence and he tries hard to be a good dad
in other ways.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Doesn't make his violence
excusable, but it gives him more depth and we can see him do some good
things
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Mary Rosenblum
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even if he can't control his
drinking and outbreaks.
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janecj333
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I can imagine ridding a story of
maudlin scenes, falsely dramatic and romantic scenes. The perfect stuff I
like to keep and make it work.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Ah, and you know what, Jane?
THis is an important point in growth as a writer, I think...when your
priority shifts from 'words' to 'story'.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you bend the story to keep
that scene is it really a stronger story because of the bending?
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Mary Rosenblum
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If it is, you're fine.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's a subtle difference in
mindset, but I can look back at my writing history and find the point at
which my perspective changed.
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pook
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MY assignment 11 doesn't flow.
It is choppy. It is mainly dialogue between the prot. and ant. What can I
do?
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Mary Rosenblum
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You may well need more action,
pook.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I see a lot of 'talking heads'
scenes where people simply talk and nothing happens.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Here's an ideal place to use
action tags, let the readers see the characters as they gesture, move about
the room, do something.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It should help smooth out that
scene, too.
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hauckston
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why do so many people kill off
characters??? I feel like it is a cop out for authors.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Sometimes it is, sometimes you
need to do it, haucks. I hate it when I think the author did it just for
the 'tear jerk' impact.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Remember, in dialogue scenes,
you want to create the effect that we see the action and hear the speech
simultaneiously.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you use those action tags
to add the visuals to do that, you can reveal your characters' emotions at
the same time and smooth out what will otherwise feel choppy.
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pook
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There are things I want him to
say - and her, too - but I can't get the sequence right.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Try talking it out, out loud,
pook.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I still do that with a lot of
my dialogue.
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hauckston
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I had a scene in a novel where
it could've gone either way. However, I didn't want the ant to end up dead,
nor in an asylum. So instead, I made him a confused human.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Again, the main thing is serve
the story.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Any last questions before we
end the hour?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Next time you're stuck in
line, remember..here's your chance to observe the signs
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Mary Rosenblum
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of growing irritation! LOL
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Mary Rosenblum
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Join us tomorrow for our
casual chat.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Same time, same place.
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janecj333
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I often analyze scenes for what
they accomplish, summarize them on index cards and shift them around.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That can be a good way to do
it, Jane. Beats five feet of shelf paper tacked on the wall and scribbled
on!
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Mary Rosenblum
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Have a good day, all.
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Mary Rosenblum
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See you tomorrow for our
casual chat.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I'll post the transcripts in
the usual place: Writing Craft: Forum Transcripts.
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