Louise Marley: Switching to YA 6/15/06

Mary Rosenblum

Welcome to our Thursday Professional Connection live interview.

Tonight we'll be chatting with Louise Marley, Louise Marley is a former concert and opera singer who now writes science fiction and fantasy fulltime. She is the author of eight published novels, is under contract for three more, and has published several pieces of short fiction in various science fiction publications. Her novel The Child Goddess recently won the Endeavour Award for excellence in science fiction, and her most recent novel, Singer in the Snow, which is her first young adult work, is an ALA nominee for Best Books for Young Adults for 2006.

You can read about her many accomplishments at her website

So Louise, welcome! It's so nice to see you back here again!

ashton

Welcome, Louise! Pets to Piper...

Louise Marley

Hi, and thanks for having me.

Mary Rosenblum

Not everyone who's here tonight was here for your first chat with us. Want to give us a brief overview of how you got started writing? And how you got started singing, for that matter!

Louise Marley

I started singing when I was five years old .

I couldn't help it. Just had the bug, I think

One thing led to another, college and

so forth. When I started writing, I guess I had a new bug.

I wrote some stories for my son when he was little

and then had a book idea. I went BACK to college, and

now here I am!

attybern

How and when did you first get published?

Louise Marley

I was lucky to see my very first book get published. It was the book I was working

on when I went to take a writing class at a community college.

I also attended the Clarion sf writers' workshop, which

made a huge difference to me. I found an agent, who made me do a lot of rewrites, and then

he sold the novel! SING THE LIGHT, which is now about to be reprinted.

Mary Rosenblum

By the way, Louise, Charie is here in the audience, a LR regular. She was in my Clarion class.

Louise Marley

Hi, Charie! I hope you loved Clarion as much as I did.

charie'

Absolutely

xana

Have you used any opera themes in your writing?

Louise Marley

I do use operatic themes, and also the operatic sensibility

by which I mean the drama, the building and release of tension, and

the scene arc, which is essential when performing opera arias. It's easy

to let arias be all about the music, and forget the theatrical elements. Those elements transfer very well to story.

My novel THE TERRORISTS OF IRUSTAN is essentially the story of the opera .

Shoot! I can't come up with the name right now. Later.

Tosca. Sorry.

Mary Rosenblum

There are many good plots in the opera world, that's for sure.

attybern

When did you get your agent, before your first book?

Louise Marley

Some have said that my novels have an operatic quality, and I think that's a good thing.

I found my agent Peter Rubie when I had finished (I thought) the novel. I signed with Peter because I knew the novel needed work, and he told me what I needed to fix.

This is what agents do these days, even more than editors.

ashton

Loved your music lessons for writers. It flows like a lovely piece of music too.

Louise Marley

Thank you so much! I did that piece a long time ago, but it still seems to have something to say, to me and my students, too.

Thank you!

xana

Opera has evolved considerably from its beginnings. What period influenced you the most - Verdi?

Louise Marley

I love Verdi, because with him and composers like him we have what we call

the verismo period. That means serious drama, with very high theatrical values.

Stories and novels should be theatrical, I think. Drama, not narration.

I also love several American composers . . .

Minotti, and Barber, to name two. And Gershwin.

xana

Though Nabucco is one of the most illogical operas I can recall

Louise Marley

Ha! Logical is a word that doesn't always fit operas!

I don't know Nabucco, but I'm not surprised.

Would we get away with that stuff in novels? Probably not.

The Puccini operas are great stories.

Mary Rosenblum

Louise, I've wondered about your twin careers in music and fiction... I know that passion is the only word I can use to describe the way I pursue writing.

Which of the two had provoked the greatest passion in you? Music or words? Or are they equal?

Louise Marley

This is hard to answer, because the experience is so different .

I think creative artists are simply passionate people, and if they weren't, they couldn't sustain the effort it takes to create an opera, or a novel, or even become a great cook .

When my passion for words meets my passion for performance is during readings. I still love an audience.

Mary Rosenblum

That's true. :-) There's quite a difference between that onstage performance and a year spent in front of a computer screen...except at a reading. :-)

Louise Marley

I read everything aloud, with or without an audience .

It's the only way I can know if it really works!

Mary Rosenblum

Oh, I agree on that one! I even read student and workshop ms aloud. :-)

Louise Marley

And you're a great reader, too, Mary!

xana

Music, or at least rhythm, is more of a brain stem thing - whereas, language is from higher up

Louise Marley

Hmmm. Is that the case? There may be some biological effect I'm not familiar with .

But it seems to me that the music of language is a very real element of writing.

I feel lucky to have spent so many years in music. I absorbed it into my bones, I think. Or my brain stem!

Mary Rosenblum

I suspect that various brain areas are involved in different aspects of that broad area of 'music'...when you include vocal interpretation, emotions, and the other components of performance.

ashton

Do you believe your passions can take you wherever you want to go if you are willing to devote the time to it?

Louise Marley

We all have to believe that, don't we? And trust in it. Otherwise, how could we embark on these long journeys toward goals that seem unreachable? I had no idea if I would ever publish anything .

I think we have to believe that, or we couldn't look at this long journey toward our goals .

We would be disheartened. When I was hoping to be published, and working hard toward it .

I did a lot of visualizing and dreaming. We have to keep a picture in our mind of what we want most .

I used to go to a bookstore and picture where my name would be on the shelf! It sounds childish, but it kept me going.

Mary Rosenblum

I think you need that

because in writing, certainly, you're not going to get a lot of immediate gratification...at least not from bookstore shelves and fans!

Louise Marley

Don't you think, though, in many ways, we write for ourselves first of all?

And then actually being published is the validation of our appreciation of our own work! That sounds sort of odd, but

If I write something I'm not enthusiastic about, I can certainly understand if the editors don't want it!

It's part of singing with your own voice .

Mary Rosenblum

Oh, it's not odd at all. I think all of us write for ourselves first and want to share that with others....it's the process of getting through the bruising red tape of publication that can require a lot of faith.

Louise Marley

Being true to your own artistic impulse. The "genius," if you will, that belongs to each individual.

Faith, yes! It can be a challenge.

ashton

Cool! That's exactly my thoughts. Writing is my passion. I don't plan on letting anything stop me from my dream of being a published author. Not rejections, time, anything....Writing has taught me patience if anything else. And I would write even if there was nobody on the planet to read it.

Louise Marley

There you go. You write for yourself first, to satisfy that fire in your belly.

attybern

How long did it take to write your first novel?

Louise Marley

SING THE LIGHT took a long time because I was learning. I would say I spent four years on the book .

After that my books took about a year to eighteen months each. But now I'm on a much tighter deadline .

Fortunately, I've learned a thing or two, and I write faster!

xana

Which tends to come first for you: characters or plot - or do they emerge together?

Louise Marley

Plot? What's plot? :-) No, seriously .

For me it's all character, and colorful setting. I only construct plots so I can watch the characters

do interesting things and go interesting places. Plot is HARD.

go interesting places and do interesting things. Plot is HARD.

charie'

Has your experience with costumes and lavish sets influenced your settings?

Louise Marley

Oh, yes. I love a truly dramatic setting--colorful, extreme, with lots of opportunity for vivid description.

I've written about a desert planet, an ice planet, and so forth.

And extreme settings provide lots of opportunity for conflict.

Mary Rosenblum

Now these books were all for adults, and now you have a YA fantasy coming out. How did you end up making this shift?

Louise Marley

I actually had a lucky break. The editor of my adult books introduced me to

the best editor of YA fantasy and science fiction working in the field at the moment.

Her name is Sharyn November, and she asked me to propose a book to her! I could hardly believe it.

I felt as if I had arrived in some way . . . and it's working out very, very well.

speckledorf

What if any differences have you discovered writing YA vs for adults...and do you have a preference?

Louise Marley

The main difference in writing YA is that the protagonists are young adults! Otherwise, really, you write your story the way you would .

There aren't any truly taboo subjects; only the sex is offstage, and the violence should not be gratuitous, but essential to the plot.

So, since I'm writing my stories the way I want them, I don't have a preference.

speckledorf

Do you find there is a set age where the protagonist is considered to be an adult?

Louise Marley

Wow. What a good question, and a hard one .

Because people mature at such different rates, don't they? It seems to me that people in their teens are still considered

to be young adults. Twenty, twenty-one--I think we have to think of these as adult ages.

The range is broad, though, from eleven or twelve through twenty or so.

My YA, by the way, is considered "older" YA.

Mary Rosenblum

That's really the crossover end of the spectrum anyway, isn't it? Where you get teen readers and adult readers both?

Louise Marley

I most sincerely hope so!

megger

Does writing for YA mean more visuals and less plot or can that age handle complications?

Louise Marley

And, of course, there are always young readers

who think "young" books are boring.

Megger, I don't think there are any simple differences like that, actually.

Again, the story should be told in the way that fits it.

If it's a visual story, great. If it's got a subtle plot, or complicated one

then that's the way it needs to be told. I've read some very dark, twisted YA!

xana

Seems to me the issue is whether the protagonist is facing adult problems or not - marriage, kids, and job are definitely adult, but conquering an evil force can be any age

Louise Marley

Very good!

You're right, what concerns people at different ages is at the heart of the conflicts of fiction.

info

Which do think is easier to write? Adult or YA?

Louise Marley

I don't think either is easy! :-) YA is a bit shorter, which may make it easier for some . . .

But it feels to me that you have to get the same amount of plot and drama into a shorter form, which is hard!

My YA contracts specify 60K words, by the way.

ashton

Who are your favorite authors and why?

Louise Marley

I love Connie Willis, Geoff Ryman, Greg Bear, Sharon Shinn .

This could go on a while! I read a lot of YA because I like the compactness of the form.

I like George R. R. Martin, too, although I don't enjoy long, long series of books.

I like Mary Rosenblum !

Mary Rosenblum

blushes

mephistopheles

Where do you draw the line for young adults and adult language, such as, ...What the hell just happened? I have a story with the word hell in it 5 times all referring not to an individual except for mephistopheles. I have been told you should find substitutes, but the one character that says it is just a jolly get a pint and smack your back kind of guy.

Mary Rosenblum

So in other word, that 'what the hell' fits the character, meph?

Did you get any 'limits' that way, Louise?

Louise Marley

I have heard my YA editor address this issue, and she says the character should say the word that the character really WOULD say. She says

when you substitute a word, everyone knows what the word should have been, and it feels wrong.

Again, her only limitations were about onstage sex (don't) and gratuitous violence (don't.)

But sex is of concern to teens, and you can't ignore it.

Mary Rosenblum

Now, I have run up against the reality of library sales and language...and I assume that if your books may be destined for a high school library that may be a major reality.

Louise Marley

And teens can swear, hoo boy.

I think it depends a lot on the librarians.

mephistopheles

No, I agree with the sexual graphic scenes and do not want those to be in a YA book.

Louise Marley

There are some odd stories going around New York these days

about books that have a lot of sexual content, really explicit stuff. The general feeling among the editors

is that it's a bad idea, and maybe a gratuitous one, to sell sensational books instead of good ones.

Mary Rosenblum

Wow, what a concept. (I'm laughing). Gee, good for New York!

xana

...remembers sneaking her mom's copy of Peyton Place as a teen...

Mary Rosenblum

Oh didn't we all? Or Lady Chatterley

Louise Marley

I find editors mostly have a high degree of integrity.

I find editors mostly have a high degree of integrity.

They're editors because they care about literature.

Mary Rosenblum

Oh, I don't blame the editors. If I'm going to snipe at NY, it's going to be at the publishers ...at the marketing level.

Louise Marley

No kiddin'. Huge advances for questionable projects

and the bestseller mentality. I've been blogging about that a lot lately

because the bestseller lists are manipulated, just to be able to say Bestseller on a dust jacket

which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Mary Rosenblum

Oh, it sure happens!

xana

And virtually no marketing for a lot of much better books they publish

Louise Marley

Yes! The problem, of course, is that

marketing doesn't work very well. Word of mouth, or buzz, is the most effective

but hard to get going. Sensationalism is great for building buzz!

charie'

Are you referring to YA or adult fiction with a lot of sex?

Louise Marley

So you get some awful people selling lots of books, just because they do and say awful things, and get a lot of attention.

I was referring to YA, believe it or not. One particularly egregious book.

Called Rainbow Circle, I think?

Or Rainbow Party . . . I can't remember.

Mary Rosenblum

Wow, I was assuming you were speaking of adult fiction.

Louise Marley

It's a shocker, isn't it? This is the instance that really upset Sharyn.

And Sharyn is a pretty hip lady.

speckledorf

Are there any plots that YA readers are tired of? Wizard school students, portals into another world, etc. or do you think the telling of the story makes the difference no matter the plot?

Louise Marley

Okay, it's not hip to say hip, but I couldn't think of another word.

This is a great question!

I think it's important not to imitate . . . but if your story really has hold of you

it's worth writing. There are, after all, only so many ideas to work with. We call them tropes

and there are lots of ways to approach them that still feel fresh and original . . . because they are!

And there are always fresh and original ways to approach them.

Wizard schools might have been used up by J.K. Rowling, though. I hate to say that.

Mary Rosenblum

Everything has been done...that's no excuse for not doing it your way.

Louise Marley

But if you're doing a wizard school, and it's really different and unique, write it!

I'll read it.

ashton

Do you watch a lot of sci-fi? Or do you read more if it?

Louise Marley

I read a LOT. But I watch some good stuff--I adore Firefly and Serenity.

I was a big Star Trek fan.

I wish there were more real science fiction in films and on TV

Mary Rosenblum

Good ones would be nice. :-)

megger

I just saw "Dark City" on cable this week and was completely drawn into SF - never would have believed that! HA.

Louise Marley

Yes. I love Firefly, because even though it's not hard sf .

It’s all about character and voice and great, great setting.

I'll have to try Dark City!

Mary Rosenblum

So Louise, why SF and why Fantasy? What drew you to these genres rather than mystery, say, or mainstream?

Louise Marley

I fell in love with fantasy and science fiction as a kid.

I read the Wizard of Oz, and the Half Magic books, and I was hooked. And all my fictional ideas seem to be speculative, so

out they come! Certainly mainstream would sell better, as sf/f has such a small market share.

Mary Rosenblum

Have you ever thought about trying other genres?

Louise Marley

Yes. I'm playing around with a chick lit novel

but it started out as a contemporary fantasy.

Always a fantastic element, though, in everything I write. It's just what seems to be my voice.

Mary Rosenblum

What's the fantasy element in your new YA?

Louise Marley

SINGER IN THE SNOW is set on an ice planet, where Singers create warmth by focusing psi power through music.

Other than the psychic abilities, it's a science fiction story.

ashton

Could you define speculative and what it means?

Louise Marley

Yes, of course. It's an umbrella term that we use to describe

all the subgenres of fantasy and science fiction. It includes

horror, hard science fiction, social science fiction, paranormal stories (even romance, very popular at the moment) and any other genre that has a fantastic element of some kind.

megger

Is there a difference between alternative fiction and speculative or is it just "what if?"

Louise Marley

I don't think I know what alternative fiction is, unless you mean alternate history?

megger

Right. Like the Germans winning WWII.

Louise Marley

Oh, yes. Alternate history. And it is definitely "speculative"--as you said, what if.

Mary Rosenblum

Don't forget, all these labels are marketing tools...so that bookstores know where to shelve books and readers know where to look for them.

Louise Marley

Exactly. And some books are shelved differently by some stores.

charie'

Does YA sell better than SF?

Louise Marley

It's a broad question, and of course the YA I know is mostly sf or fantasy .

But libraries do make YA a steady market. Some sf, of course, sells fantastically well but fantasy outsells sf in general.

However

Just about the time we think we have it figured out, it's likely to change! I think it's so very important to write what you love, to invest your work with the passion we spoke of earlier.

Mary Rosenblum

I think that's the key and always has been...write what moves you to passion, no matter what the market is doing now. That passion is priceless

and the market changes constantly.

speckledorf

What advice would you give for those wanting to break into YA?

Louise Marley

Passion IS priceless, you're so right! Inspiration.

To break into YA, or any genre, you have to write a good story!

Despite the naysayers, and the challenges, editors and publishers are always looking for great books. You're doing a smart thing right now by being part of this group

studying, critiquing, improving your work all the time.

I still work with a writer's group, after eight novels.

And I learn from my students all the time, too.

charie'

So your passion for SF is just expanding to a slightly different venue?

Louise Marley

I suppose you could say that, Charie. It doesn't seem all that different to me, though.

mephistopheles

I think you not only have to write with passion but be willing to go on a limb sometimes to reach that last shining star and hope it is your lucky break into print.

Louise Marley

I feel at home with speculative fiction.

Meph, you're right. Luck does help a whole bunch.

Or as someone said once . . .

Part of being lucky is being ready!!

Mary Rosenblum

Oh, I like that last saying, Louise!

mephistopheles

Probably an attorney. lol

Louise Marley

Ha!

Mary Rosenblum

Can you tell us a bit about Singer? What the conflict/plot is like? Without giving away the ending, of course!

Louise Marley

Always love to talk about the novels!

In SINGER IN THE SNOW, there are three young people whose lives intersect .

One is a Singer having trouble with her Gift, another is a Singer who has no voice at all (!!!) and the third is a young man with terrible family troubles, a mean stepfather, and a dark future.

Their struggles overlap, and end in a really lovely big scene where everything blows up .

There's a knife, and some swearing, and danger of freezing to death in the deep cold . . . it's so much fun.

Mary Rosenblum

Oh, sounds as if it has some lovely scenes. :-) Good book for a hot summer day! When is it out?

speckledorf

Okay...I'm sold. Where can I get a copy?

Louise Marley

Your local independent bookstore!  Or amazon.com

Mary Rosenblum

It just came out, didn't it?

Louise Marley

Oh, the book came out in December.

Mary Rosenblum

Ah, I've gotten your schedule confused!

Louise Marley

And Sharyn is going to reprint the other books set in the same world.

Mary Rosenblum

That's great. :-)

Louise Marley

I'm thrilled to see them come back into print. Then my next novel for her will be science fiction.

Mary Rosenblum

What else is coming up? What's new on the horizon?

Louise Marley

I have a new trilogy coming out early in 2007 .

That is to say, the first book of a new trilogy. It's called AIRS BENEATH THE MOON, about women who fly winged horses

and it will be under the pseudonym Toby Bishop.

Mary Rosenblum

Ah, the name change. Want to tackle that explanation?

Louise Marley

Order early! Order often!

Oh, yes. . . the pseudonym .

This fantasy trilogy is a departure for me. I have the reputation of writing

slightly literary, feminist science fiction. This is a straight fantasy (well . . . it has feminist elements) and it will come out in paperback. So it seemed good to use a different name.

We try not to fool our readership.

Mary uses two or three names, don't you, Mary? Did you have the same reason?

Mary Rosenblum

Just Mary Freeman in mystery.

That's just to let readers know what they're getting. Mystery or SF.

Louise Marley

Yes. I hope everyone will know my trilogy is mine .

but it signals to them that this is a different sort of book than others of mine they may have read.

A bookseller told me that when Greg Bear published his book BLOOD MUSIC

vampire readers bought it, and were really mad. It's hard, hard science fiction--lots of science, no vampires.

Mary Rosenblum

LOL...I bet that happened.

Oh yes...back when we were first talking about music and writing...

and what parts of the brain do which, Xana sent me a book title on the subject...

but the discussion had moved on. It sounds interesting. It's on the brain and music and how it all works...

Louise Marley

Music, the Brain, and Ecstasy?

Mary Rosenblum

Beethoven's Anvil: Music in Mind and Culture

Thanks, Xana.

Louise Marley

Oh, a different one. Sounds fascinating. MUSIC, THE BRAIN, AND ECSTASY is a marvelous book on this subject. Beautifully written.

xana

I now expect to see one of you use them (there are two: Beethoven's Anvil and Music and the Mind) in your next sci-fi book

Mary Rosenblum

Ah, you very well may, xana....that's why I looked it up. It might find a place in the current novel, actually.

xana

I read Music, the Brain, and Ecstasy too

Louise Marley

Will do. Borrow from anyone you can find!

speckledorf

Speaking of music...do you write with music going? And what is a typical writing day for you like?

Louise Marley

Xana, isn't that a beautiful book?

Ah, speckledorf . . . isn't it funny, but I can't write with music on. I need silence, or else white noise, as in a coffee shop.

Music distracts me . . . I start actually listening to it, following the melody, the harmonies .

I don't get any writing done.

My typical writing day is just that I write whenever I'm not doing anything else . . .

I exercise a lot, and work with my dog, and I also cook and keep house .

So every moment not filled with something else, I'm either at my computer or reading or studying or something.

I'm physically a restless person, so it's hard to sit for a long time at the computer.

Mary Rosenblum

Have you ever faced a writer's block?

Louise Marley

No.

I have felt stuck a few times, but a brisk walk or a change of scene usually fixes that. .

My favorite way to solve a plot problem is to do something that involves my hands but not my mind. Fold laundry, walk the dog, or drive the car with the radio off and no one talking to me!

Mary Rosenblum

Driving is good for that, isn't it? :-) I got a lot of writing done when I used to drive up to Seattle for my writers workshop.

Louise Marley

Yes, it is. There's something hypnotic about it (probably dangerous) that sets your mind free.

ashton

I'm laughing here...I do the same thing. I tell my family I'm thinking and driving...lol

speckledorf

How much world building and plotting do you do before starting to write?

Louise Marley

Tee hee. Be careful!

I have quite a specific process, as it happens .

In the tradition of Madeleine L'Engle, I "write myself into the book"

which means I write three chapters, more or less, to find out what I want it to feel like, what the characters might be like, discover what intrigues me about the setting

and then I write a synopsis so that I know what's going to happen and where I'm going.

The world building comes along as I write the story, usually. It's quite a lot of details to dream up and organize!

payton

How complete are your characters before you start writing?

Louise Marley

Not complete at all. I need to see them in action before I know where I want to go with them . . . . how their idiosyncrasies serve the story.

Some writers have everything figured out in advance. I discover a lot of it as I go along. It's part of the fun.

I'm all about fun--have you noticed?

Mary Rosenblum

Well, we're almost out of time. I have to say I can't wait to see the cover for your winged-horse fantasy!

Louise Marley

Me, too,

Mary Rosenblum

Do remember that Louise has a great website and very fun...and informative...blog.

Louise Marley

Oh, me, too, Mary! Susan Allison (my editor) says she loves it.

And no feathers!

Mary Rosenblum

Louise's Website

Louise Marley

Please visit my blog . . . we're having a great conversation about writing sf/f.

Mary Rosenblum

Yeah, I really like the no feathers thing!

You can get to the blog from the website, can't you?

Louise Marley

Yes, there's a link on the front page at www.louisemarley.com

Mary Rosenblum

That's what I thought I remembered. :-)

Louise Marley

I had doubts about blogging, but it's turned out to be great.

Mary Rosenblum

Want to give our audience of novice writers one last piece of advice, Louise?